Discussion:
List of new Microsoft groups per NNTP Bridge
(too old to reply)
Julien ÉLIE
2010-05-21 13:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

For those interested in the current list of newsgroups as they appear
in NNTP Bridge (the new application linked to Microsoft Forums),
here there are.

Yes, there are Windows 7 newsgroups, Sharepoint 2010 newsgroups, etc.


2334 groups on May, 21st 2010:

Answers.de-DE.answersiede
Answers.de-DE.answerswude
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Answers.de-DE.officeexcelde
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Answers.de-DE.w7gamingde
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Answers.en-US.w7repair
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Answers.en-US.windowsmobile
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Microsoft.en-US.fixitcenter
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Microsoft.fr-FR.1768
Microsoft.fr-FR.1771
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Msdn.en-US.MEFramework
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Msdn.en-US.microsofttranslator
Msdn.en-US.mktplace
Msdn.en-US.modelingandtools
Msdn.en-US.ModeratorPostingSandbox
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Msdn.en-US.mpttroubleshoot
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Msdn.en-US.sqldatabasemirroring
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Msdn.en-US.sqlkjreportingservices
Msdn.en-US.sqlkjsecurity
Msdn.en-US.sqlkjsetupandupgrade
Msdn.en-US.sqlkjsmoanddmo
Msdn.en-US.sqlnetfx
Msdn.en-US.sqlnotificationservices
Msdn.en-US.sqlreplication
Msdn.en-US.sqlreportingservices
Msdn.en-US.sqlsearch
Msdn.en-US.sqlsecurity
Msdn.en-US.sqlservermigration
Msdn.en-US.sqlserversamples
Msdn.en-US.sqlservicebroker
Msdn.en-US.sqlsetupandupgrade
Msdn.en-US.sqlsmoanddmo
Msdn.en-US.sqlspatial
Msdn.en-US.sqltools
Msdn.en-US.sqlxml
Msdn.en-US.ssdsgetstarted
Msdn.en-US.stmdevlab
Msdn.en-US.storageplatformata
Msdn.en-US.streaminsight
Msdn.en-US.surfaceappdesign
Msdn.en-US.surfaceappdevelopment
Msdn.en-US.tabletandtouch
Msdn.en-US.tcclientsim
Msdn.en-US.tee
Msdn.en-US.tellmestudio
Msdn.en-US.tfsadmin
Msdn.en-US.tfsintegration
Msdn.en-US.tfspowertools
Msdn.en-US.tfsprocess
Msdn.en-US.tfsreporting
Msdn.en-US.tfssetup
Msdn.en-US.tfsspecs
Msdn.en-US.tfsversioncontrol
Msdn.en-US.tfswebaccess
Msdn.en-US.tfsworkitemtracking
Msdn.en-US.transactsql
Msdn.en-US.ucajaxsdk
Msdn.en-US.ucclientsdk
Msdn.en-US.ucmanagedsdk
Msdn.en-US.vbaspec
Msdn.en-US.vbbugsubmissionpilot
Msdn.en-US.vbexpress2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.vbgeneral
Msdn.en-US.vbide
Msdn.en-US.vbinterop
Msdn.en-US.vblanguage
Msdn.en-US.vbpowerpacks
Msdn.en-US.vclanguage
Msdn.en-US.vcmfcatl
Msdn.en-US.vcplus2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.vcpluscs
Msdn.en-US.vcplusexpress2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.vcpluslanguage
Msdn.en-US.vcprerelease
Msdn.en-US.vcsharp2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.vcsharpexpress2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.velocity
Msdn.en-US.vemapcontroldev
Msdn.en-US.vistawirelesssdk
Msdn.en-US.visualfoxprogeneral
Msdn.en-US.visualjsharpgeneral
Msdn.en-US.vrta
Msdn.en-US.vs2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.vs2008prereleaseinstallandsetup
Msdn.en-US.vs2008prereleasexml
Msdn.en-US.vs2008sp1beta
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpaspnetandnetfx
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpcpp
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpdataandxml
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpdeploy
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpeditor
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpparallel
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpsupport
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpvbcs
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpwebdev
Msdn.en-US.vs2010ctpwpfdata
Msdn.en-US.vs2010office
Msdn.en-US.vsarch
Msdn.en-US.vsautotest
Msdn.en-US.vsclassdesigner
Msdn.en-US.vscrystalreports
Msdn.en-US.vsdebug
Msdn.en-US.vseditor
Msdn.en-US.vseditorprerelease
Msdn.en-US.vsexpress2008installationandsetup
Msdn.en-US.Vsexpressinstall
Msdn.en-US.Vsexpressvb
Msdn.en-US.Vsexpressvc
Msdn.en-US.Vsexpressvcs
Msdn.en-US.vsgalleryfeedback
Msdn.en-US.vsgatk
Msdn.en-US.vside2008
Msdn.en-US.vslab
Msdn.en-US.vsloadtest
Msdn.en-US.vsmantest
Msdn.en-US.vsofficetools2008prerelease
Msdn.en-US.vsprereleaseannouncements
Msdn.en-US.vsreportcontrols
Msdn.en-US.vssetup
Msdn.en-US.vssharepointdevelopment
Msdn.en-US.vssmartdevicesnative
Msdn.en-US.vssmartdevicesvbcs
Msdn.en-US.vssourcecontrol
Msdn.en-US.vsto
Msdn.en-US.vstsappverifier
Msdn.en-US.vstscode
Msdn.en-US.vstsdb
Msdn.en-US.vstsmsf
Msdn.en-US.vstsprofiler
Msdn.en-US.vstsrosario
Msdn.en-US.vstsstart
Msdn.en-US.vststest
Msdn.en-US.vsunittest
Msdn.en-US.vswebdeveloperexpresspt
Msdn.en-US.vswpfdesigner
Msdn.en-US.vsx
Msdn.en-US.vsxprerelease
Msdn.en-US.wcf
Msdn.en-US.wcfprerelease
Msdn.en-US.webdevelopmentprerelease
Msdn.en-US.webgadgetdevelopment
Msdn.en-US.websandbox
Msdn.en-US.websandbox-exploits
Msdn.en-US.wfp
Msdn.en-US.wfprerelease
Msdn.en-US.windowsaccessibilityandautomation
Msdn.en-US.windowsazure
Msdn.en-US.windowscardspace
Msdn.en-US.windowscompatibility
Msdn.en-US.windowsdesktopsearchdevelopment
Msdn.en-US.windowsdesktopsearchhelp
Msdn.en-US.windowsdirectshowdevelopment
Msdn.en-US.windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues
Msdn.en-US.windowsmobiledev
Msdn.en-US.windowsopticalplatform
Msdn.en-US.windowsphone7series
Msdn.en-US.windowspro-audiodevelopment
Msdn.en-US.windowsribbondevelopment
Msdn.en-US.windowssdk
Msdn.en-US.windowssearch
Msdn.en-US.windowssecurity
Msdn.en-US.windowssensorandlocationplatform
Msdn.en-US.windowssideshow
Msdn.en-US.windowstransactionsprogramming
Msdn.en-US.windowsuidevelopment
Msdn.en-US.windowswic
Msdn.en-US.windowsworkflowfoundation
Msdn.en-US.windowsxps
Msdn.en-US.winembmngdapp
Msdn.en-US.winembnatapp
Msdn.en-US.winembplatdev
Msdn.en-US.winforms
Msdn.en-US.winformsapplications
Msdn.en-US.winformsdatacontrols
Msdn.en-US.winformsdesigner
Msdn.en-US.winformssetup
Msdn.en-US.winserver2008appcompatabilityandcertification
Msdn.en-US.wlalertsdev
Msdn.en-US.wlcontrolsdev
Msdn.en-US.wldatadev
Msdn.en-US.wlgeneraldev
Msdn.en-US.wliddev
Msdn.en-US.wlmessengerapidev
Msdn.en-US.wlmessengerdev
Msdn.en-US.wlsearchdev
Msdn.en-US.wlspacesdev
Msdn.en-US.wlwdev
Msdn.en-US.worddev
Msdn.en-US.wpf
Msdn.en-US.wpf
Msdn.en-US.wpfprerelease
Msdn.en-US.wptk_v4
Msdn.en-US.wsk
Msdn.en-US.wwsapi
Msdn.en-US.xmlandnetfx
Msdn.en-US.xnaframework
Msdn.en-US.xnagamestudioexpress
Msdn.en-US.xpwirelesssdk
Msdn.es-ES.adodotnetentityframeworkes
Msdn.es-ES.aspnetmvces
Msdn.es-ES.azuredeves
Msdn.es-ES.certificacioneses
Msdn.es-ES.cmclatames
Msdn.es-ES.cualforomsdnes
Msdn.es-ES.dcees
Msdn.es-ES.devcommes
Msdn.es-ES.devmsdnes
Msdn.es-ES.dotnetes
Msdn.es-ES.dotnetestes
Msdn.es-ES.dotnetproes
Msdn.es-ES.estrellasdcees
Msdn.es-ES.eventosespanamsdnes
Msdn.es-ES.generales
Msdn.es-ES.iedeves
Msdn.es-ES.iniciativasmsdnes
Msdn.es-ES.linqes
Msdn.es-ES.mossdeves
Msdn.es-ES.netfxcompactes
Msdn.es-ES.netfxes
Msdn.es-ES.netfxwebes
Msdn.es-ES.repdeves
Msdn.es-ES.sqlserveres
Msdn.es-ES.vb56es
Msdn.es-ES.vbes
Msdn.es-ES.vcppdotnetes
Msdn.es-ES.vcppes
Msdn.es-ES.vcses
Msdn.es-ES.vsexes
Msdn.es-ES.vsgenerales
Msdn.es-ES.vstoes
Msdn.es-ES.vstses
Msdn.es-ES.wcfes
Msdn.es-ES.webcastes
Msdn.es-ES.webdeves
Msdn.es-ES.wfes
Msdn.es-ES.winformses
Msdn.es-ES.wpfes
Msdn.es-ES.wssdeves
Msdn.es-ES.wvdeves
Msdn.es-ES.xnaes
Msdn.fr-FR.1284
Msdn.fr-FR.1343
Msdn.fr-FR.1484
Msdn.fr-FR.1836
Msdn.fr-FR.1862
Msdn.fr-FR.889
Msdn.fr-FR.accessdevelopmentfr
Msdn.fr-FR.aspnetfr
Msdn.fr-FR.azurefr
Msdn.fr-FR.cardspacefr
Msdn.fr-FR.certificationsfr
Msdn.fr-FR.compatibilite-des-applis-sous-seven
Msdn.fr-FR.developpementwin7fr
Msdn.fr-FR.expressionblendfr
Msdn.fr-FR.expressionwebfr
Msdn.fr-FR.gadgetsfr
Msdn.fr-FR.iefr
Msdn.fr-FR.infopathdevelopmentfr
Msdn.fr-FR.lesitemsdnfr
Msdn.fr-FR.netdevelopmentfr
Msdn.fr-FR.office2010devfr
Msdn.fr-FR.openxmlfr
Msdn.fr-FR.securitefr
Msdn.fr-FR.sharepoint2010devfr
Msdn.fr-FR.sharepointfr
Msdn.fr-FR.silverlightfr
Msdn.fr-FR.sqlserverexpressfr
Msdn.fr-FR.sqlserverfr
Msdn.fr-FR.vb6fr
Msdn.fr-FR.vbafr
Msdn.fr-FR.vbasicfr
Msdn.fr-FR.vistadevelopmentfr
Msdn.fr-FR.visualcplus6fr
Msdn.fr-FR.visualcplusfr
Msdn.fr-FR.visualcsharpfr
Msdn.fr-FR.visualfoxprofr
Msdn.fr-FR.vscommentsfr
Msdn.fr-FR.vsexpressinstallationfr
Msdn.fr-FR.vstoolsforofficefr
Msdn.fr-FR.vstsfr
Msdn.fr-FR.vstudiofr
Msdn.fr-FR.wcffr
Msdn.fr-FR.webdevfr
Msdn.fr-FR.windowsforumsfr
Msdn.fr-FR.wmdevfr
Msdn.fr-FR.wpffr
Msdn.fr-FR.wwffr
Msdn.fr-FR.xmlfr
Msdn.id-ID.cilentappdevid
Msdn.id-ID.devtoolsid
Msdn.id-ID.mobiledevid
Msdn.id-ID.officedevid
Msdn.id-ID.visualbasicid
Msdn.id-ID.visualcsharpid
Msdn.id-ID.webdevid
Msdn.ja-JP.384
Msdn.ja-JP.architectureja
Msdn.ja-JP.aspnetja
Msdn.ja-JP.biztalkserverja
Msdn.ja-JP.csharpexpressja
Msdn.ja-JP.csharpgeneralja
Msdn.ja-JP.mktplaceja
Msdn.ja-JP.netfxfaqja
Msdn.ja-JP.netfxgeneralja
Msdn.ja-JP.secureprogrammingja
Msdn.ja-JP.sharepointdevelopja
Msdn.ja-JP.sharepointsetupja
Msdn.ja-JP.silvelightdotnetja
Msdn.ja-JP.silvelightjavascriptja
Msdn.ja-JP.silverlightgeneralja
Msdn.ja-JP.silverlighthostingja
Msdn.ja-JP.silverlightmediaja
Msdn.ja-JP.silverlightsetupja
Msdn.ja-JP.sqlserverbija
Msdn.ja-JP.sqlserverja
Msdn.ja-JP.vbexpressja
Msdn.ja-JP.vbgeneralja
Msdn.ja-JP.vcexpressja
Msdn.ja-JP.vcgeneralja
Msdn.ja-JP.vddocumentsja
Msdn.ja-JP.vs2010genericja
Msdn.ja-JP.vsfaqja
Msdn.ja-JP.vsfeedbackja
Msdn.ja-JP.vsgeneralja
Msdn.ja-JP.vsipja
Msdn.ja-JP.vsmsdnlicenceja
Msdn.ja-JP.vstoja
Msdn.ja-JP.vstsja
Msdn.ja-JP.vwdexpressja
Msdn.ja-JP.wcfja
Msdn.ja-JP.wfja
Msdn.ja-JP.windowsazureja
Msdn.ja-JP.windowsceja
Msdn.ja-JP.windowsdevicedriverja
Msdn.ja-JP.windowsgeneraldevelopmentissuesja
Msdn.ja-JP.windowsmobiledotnetja
Msdn.ja-JP.windowsmobileja
Msdn.ja-JP.wpffaqja
Msdn.ja-JP.wpfja
Msdn.ja-JP.xnafxja
Msdn.ja-JP.xnagameja
Msdn.ko-KR.asppnetko
Msdn.ko-KR.azureko
Msdn.ko-KR.dotnetko
Msdn.ko-KR.expressionkr
Msdn.ko-KR.smartdevicesko
Msdn.ko-KR.sqlserversko
Msdn.ko-KR.vistako
Msdn.ko-KR.visualbasicko
Msdn.ko-KR.visualcplusko
Msdn.ko-KR.visualcsharpko
Msdn.ko-KR.vsko
Msdn.ko-KR.windowsforumsko
Msdn.pt-BR.1868
Msdn.pt-BR.504
Msdn.pt-BR.520
Msdn.pt-BR.accesspt
Msdn.pt-BR.adoptpt
Msdn.pt-BR.altadisponibilidadept
Msdn.pt-BR.alunomonitorpt
Msdn.pt-BR.analysisservicespt
Msdn.pt-BR.arquiteturapt
Msdn.pt-BR.aspnetpt
Msdn.pt-BR.asppt
Msdn.pt-BR.biztalkpt
Msdn.pt-BR.blendpt
Msdn.pt-BR.cardspacept
Msdn.pt-BR.clientept
Msdn.pt-BR.compatibilidadewindowspt
Msdn.pt-BR.compluspt
Msdn.pt-BR.designewebpt
Msdn.pt-BR.dynamicsaxpt
Msdn.pt-BR.dynamicscrmpt
Msdn.pt-BR.eventosbrasil
Msdn.pt-BR.excelpt
Msdn.pt-BR.expresscompactpt
Msdn.pt-BR.foradoassunto
Msdn.pt-BR.gadgetspt
Msdn.pt-BR.geralpt
Msdn.pt-BR.grupospt
Msdn.pt-BR.iept
Msdn.pt-BR.integrationservicespt
Msdn.pt-BR.licenciamentopt
Msdn.pt-BR.linqpt
Msdn.pt-BR.mobilidadept
Msdn.pt-BR.mvcpt
Msdn.pt-BR.portalpt
Msdn.pt-BR.programaspt
Msdn.pt-BR.projectpt
Msdn.pt-BR.queforum
Msdn.pt-BR.reportingservicespt
Msdn.pt-BR.searchfastesppt
Msdn.pt-BR.seguracadesistemaspt
Msdn.pt-BR.sharepointpt
Msdn.pt-BR.silverlightpt
Msdn.pt-BR.sqlazurept
Msdn.pt-BR.transactsqlpt
Msdn.pt-BR.transactsqlpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vbapt
Msdn.pt-BR.vscmaismaispt
Msdn.pt-BR.vscobolnetpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vscsharppt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsfoxpropt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsgeralpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsjsharppt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsreportingpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsteamfoundationgeralpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsteamfoundationversioncontrolpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vsteamsystemgeralpt
Msdn.pt-BR.vstudiotoolsforofficept
Msdn.pt-BR.vsvbasicpt
Msdn.pt-BR.wcfpt
Msdn.pt-BR.webdesignpt
Msdn.pt-BR.webgeralpt
Msdn.pt-BR.webservicespt
Msdn.pt-BR.wfpt
Msdn.pt-BR.windowsazurept
Msdn.pt-BR.windowslivept
Msdn.pt-BR.wordpt
Msdn.pt-BR.wpfpt
Msdn.pt-BR.xmlpt
Msdn.ro-RO.aspnetro
Msdn.ro-RO.discutii
Msdn.ro-RO.expressionro
Msdn.ro-RO.sharepointserverro
Msdn.ro-RO.silverlightro
Msdn.ro-RO.sqlro
Msdn.ro-RO.visualbasicro
Msdn.ro-RO.visualcplusro
Msdn.ro-RO.visualcsharpro
Msdn.ro-RO.visualstudioro
Msdn.ru-RU.2171
Msdn.ru-RU.adonetru
Msdn.ru-RU.architecture
Msdn.ru-RU.aspnetru
Msdn.ru-RU.beginnerru
Msdn.ru-RU.bizsparkru
Msdn.ru-RU.csharpru
Msdn.ru-RU.dreamspark
Msdn.ru-RU.imaginecupru
Msdn.ru-RU.msdnfeedbackru
Msdn.ru-RU.netframeworkru
Msdn.ru-RU.newsru
Msdn.ru-RU.ruvsfeedback
Msdn.ru-RU.ruvsts
Msdn.ru-RU.securityru
Msdn.ru-RU.smallbasicru
Msdn.ru-RU.sqlclubru
Msdn.ru-RU.sqlserverdiscussionsru
Msdn.ru-RU.studentru
Msdn.ru-RU.vs2010launchru
Msdn.ru-RU.winappcompatibilityru
Msdn.ru-RU.windowsembeddedru
Msdn.ru-RU.windowsru
Msdn.zh-CN.msdncn
Msdn.zh-TW.1007
Msdn.zh-TW.1190
Msdn.zh-TW.1191
Msdn.zh-TW.1192
Msdn.zh-TW.1295
Msdn.zh-TW.1422
Msdn.zh-TW.1511
Msdn.zh-TW.1511
Msdn.zh-TW.1604
Msdn.zh-TW.1896
Msdn.zh-TW.2028
Msdn.zh-TW.2149
Msdn.zh-TW.2199
Msdn.zh-TW.2210
Msdn.zh-TW.2211
Msdn.zh-TW.230
Msdn.zh-TW.232
Msdn.zh-TW.233
Msdn.zh-TW.234
Msdn.zh-TW.235
Msdn.zh-TW.236
Msdn.zh-TW.237
Msdn.zh-TW.238
Msdn.zh-TW.239
Msdn.zh-TW.240
Msdn.zh-TW.241
Msdn.zh-TW.242
Msdn.zh-TW.243
Msdn.zh-TW.244
Msdn.zh-TW.800
Msdn.zh-TW.802
Msdn.zh-TW.803
Msdn.zh-TW.804
Msdn.zh-TW.805
Msdn.zh-TW.880
Msdn.zh-TW.905
Msdn.zh-TW.winembeddedzhtw
Msdn.zh-TW.wp7msdntaiwan
Technet.cs-CZ.applicationscs
Technet.cs-CZ.exchangecs
Technet.cs-CZ.iecs
Technet.cs-CZ.licensingcs
Technet.cs-CZ.mobilecs
Technet.cs-CZ.officecs
Technet.cs-CZ.officeservercs
Technet.cs-CZ.othercs
Technet.cs-CZ.sbsebscs
Technet.cs-CZ.securitycs
Technet.cs-CZ.systemcentercs
Technet.cs-CZ.virtualizationcs
Technet.cs-CZ.windows7cs
Technet.cs-CZ.windowsservercs
Technet.cs-CZ.windowsvistacs
Technet.cs-CZ.windowsxpcs
Technet.da-DK.technetgeneraldk
Technet.de-DE.active_directoryde
Technet.de-DE.exchange_serverde
Technet.de-DE.high_performance_computing_de
Technet.de-DE.iisde
Technet.de-DE.it_managerde
Technet.de-DE.ocsde
Technet.de-DE.office_14de
Technet.de-DE.office_generalde
Technet.de-DE.powershell_de
Technet.de-DE.sbsde
Technet.de-DE.Sharepointde
Technet.de-DE.sqlserver
Technet.de-DE.systemcenterde
Technet.de-DE.technetgenerelle_fragende
Technet.de-DE.technetmicrosoft_communityde
Technet.de-DE.technetnews_and_infosde
Technet.de-DE.technetonlinede
Technet.de-DE.virtualisierung
Technet.de-DE.w7itprogeneralde
Technet.de-DE.w7itproinstallde
Technet.de-DE.windows_clientde
Technet.de-DE.windows_clientde
Technet.de-DE.windowsdeploymentde
Technet.de-DE.windows_homeserverde
Technet.de-DE.windowsmobilede
Technet.de-DE.windows_Serverde
Technet.de-DE.windowsservergewusstwiede
Technet.en-SG.technetgensg
Technet.en-US.2010sg
Technet.en-US.access
Technet.en-US.aisannouncements
Technet.en-US.aisgeneral
Technet.en-US.Antigen
Technet.en-US.appvaddons
Technet.en-US.appvbeta
Technet.en-US.appvclients
Technet.en-US.appvdocumentation
Technet.en-US.appvgeneralsequencing
Technet.en-US.appvserverandmanagement
Technet.en-US.australiamanagement
Technet.en-US.australiasecurity
Technet.en-US.biztalkhis
Technet.en-US.clicktorun
Technet.en-US.clusteringde
Technet.en-US.compliancemanagement
Technet.en-US.configmgradminconsole
Technet.en-US.configmgrai
Technet.en-US.configmgrannouncements
Technet.en-US.configmgrbackup
Technet.en-US.configmgrdcm
Technet.en-US.configmgrdocs
Technet.en-US.configmgrgeneral
Technet.en-US.configmgribcm
Technet.en-US.configmgrinventory
Technet.en-US.configmgrosd
Technet.en-US.configmgrosd
Technet.en-US.configmgrsdk
Technet.en-US.configmgrsetup
Technet.en-US.configmgrsum
Technet.en-US.configmgrswdist
Technet.en-US.crossplatformgeneral
Technet.en-US.dataprotectionmanager
Technet.en-US.eventosespanaes
Technet.en-US.excel
Technet.en-US.exchange2010
Technet.en-US.exchangesoftwareupdate
Technet.en-US.exchangesvr3rdpartyapps
Technet.en-US.exchangesvradmin
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrantivirusandantispam
Technet.en-US.exchangesvravailabilityandisasterrecovery
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrclients
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrcompliance
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrdevelopment
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrgeneral
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrmigration
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrmobility
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrmonitoring
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrsecuremessaging
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrtransport
Technet.en-US.exchangesvrunifiedmessaging
Technet.en-US.exrca
Technet.en-US.FCSNext
Technet.en-US.Forefrontclientalert
Technet.en-US.Forefrontclientgeneral
Technet.en-US.ForefrontclientMTR
Technet.en-US.Forefrontclientreporting
Technet.en-US.Forefrontclientsetup
Technet.en-US.ForefrontclientSSA
Technet.en-US.Forefrontedgefirewall
Technet.en-US.Forefrontedgegeneral
Technet.en-US.ForefrontedgeIA
Technet.en-US.forefrontedgeiag
Technet.en-US.ForefrontedgeMLR
Technet.en-US.ForefrontedgePub
Technet.en-US.Forefrontedgesetup
Technet.en-US.ForefrontedgeVPN
Technet.en-US.forefrontexchange
Technet.en-US.forefrontOCS
Technet.en-US.ForefrontserverMC
Technet.en-US.forefrontSharePoint
Technet.en-US.fsct
Technet.en-US.FSENext
Technet.en-US.FSSPNext
Technet.en-US.FTMGNext
Technet.en-US.grooveserveritpro
Technet.en-US.identitylifecyclemanager
Technet.en-US.ilm2
Technet.en-US.interopgeneral
Technet.en-US.interopscsm
Technet.en-US.ITCG
Technet.en-US.itmanager
Technet.en-US.itprovistaact
Technet.en-US.itprovistaactivation
Technet.en-US.itprovistaannouncements
Technet.en-US.itprovistaapps
Technet.en-US.itprovistadeployment
Technet.en-US.itprovistadesktopui
Technet.en-US.itprovistahardware
Technet.en-US.itprovistaie
Technet.en-US.itprovistamigration
Technet.en-US.itprovistanetworking
Technet.en-US.itprovistaprinting
Technet.en-US.itprovistasecurity
Technet.en-US.itprovistasecurity
Technet.en-US.itprovistasetup
Technet.en-US.itprovistasp
Technet.en-US.itproxpsp
Technet.en-US.map
Technet.en-US.mdt
Technet.en-US.MOCP
Technet.en-US.MOF4
Technet.en-US.mscomops
Technet.en-US.netmon
Technet.en-US.ocsaddressbook
Technet.en-US.ocscapacityplanning
Technet.en-US.ocscertificates
Technet.en-US.ocsclients
Technet.en-US.ocsconferencing
Technet.en-US.ocsedge
Technet.en-US.ocsinterop
Technet.en-US.ocsmanagement
Technet.en-US.ocsmobility
Technet.en-US.ocsmonitoring
Technet.en-US.ocsplanningdeployment
Technet.en-US.ocspresenceim
Technet.en-US.ocssecurity
Technet.en-US.ocsucintegration
Technet.en-US.ocsvoice
Technet.en-US.office2007deployment
Technet.en-US.office2007deploymentcompatibility
Technet.en-US.office2010
Technet.en-US.office2010
Technet.en-US.office2010appcompat
Technet.en-US.office2010volact
Technet.en-US.officeappcompat
Technet.en-US.officeitpro
Technet.en-US.officesetupdeploy
Technet.en-US.officevolact
Technet.en-US.officewebappssetup
Technet.en-US.olmcjm
Technet.en-US.olmdiscussion
Technet.en-US.olmexp
Technet.en-US.olmmedia
Technet.en-US.olmsrnd
Technet.en-US.onenote
Technet.en-US.onlineservices
Technet.en-US.onlineservicesadministrationcenter
Technet.en-US.onlineservicesannouncements
Technet.en-US.onlineservicesexchange
Technet.en-US.onlineserviceslivemeeting
Technet.en-US.onlineservicesmigrationandcoexistence
Technet.en-US.onlineservicesoc
Technet.en-US.onlineservicessharepoint
Technet.en-US.onlineservicessigninapplication
Technet.en-US.opalisint
Technet.en-US.opalisqik
Technet.en-US.opalisv4
Technet.en-US.opalisv5v6
Technet.en-US.operationsmanagerauthoring
Technet.en-US.operationsmanagerdeployment
Technet.en-US.operationsmanagerextensibility
Technet.en-US.operationsmanagergeneral
Technet.en-US.operationsmanagermgmtpacks
Technet.en-US.operationsmanagerreporting
Technet.en-US.outlook
Technet.en-US.perfmon
Technet.en-US.posready
Technet.en-US.powerpoint
Technet.en-US.ppsdataintegrationtoolkit
Technet.en-US.ppsmonitoringandanalytics
Technet.en-US.ppsplanning
Technet.en-US.proclarity
Technet.en-US.projectserver
Technet.en-US.publisher
Technet.en-US.SCMDM
Technet.en-US.sharepoint2010customization
Technet.en-US.sharepoint2010programming
Technet.en-US.sharepoint2010setup
Technet.en-US.sharepointadmin
Technet.en-US.sharepointadmin
Technet.en-US.sharepointcollaboration
Technet.en-US.sharepointcommunity
Technet.en-US.sharepointgeneral
Technet.en-US.sharepointsearch
Technet.en-US.sharepointsocialcomputing
Technet.en-US.sharepointworkspace
Technet.en-US.sms
Technet.en-US.surfaceapplications
Technet.en-US.surfacehardware
Technet.en-US.SurfaceSoftware
Technet.en-US.systemcenter
Technet.en-US.systemcentercapacityplanner
Technet.en-US.systemcenterdeployment
Technet.en-US.systemcenterdevelopment
Technet.en-US.systemcenteressentials
Technet.en-US.systemcenterinventory
Technet.en-US.systemcentermonitoring
Technet.en-US.systemcenterrom
Technet.en-US.systemcenterservicemanager
Technet.en-US.systemcenterupdates
Technet.en-US.technetgeneralau
Technet.en-US.tnfeedback
Technet.en-US.TNPlans
Technet.en-US.tnsandbox
Technet.en-US.tnwiki
Technet.en-US.ucccommunityadministration
Technet.en-US.ucccommunityenduser
Technet.en-US.ucccommunitygovernance
Technet.en-US.ucccommunitymobility
Technet.en-US.ucccommunityocsdeployment
Technet.en-US.ucccommunityvoipexperience
Technet.en-US.ucccommunityvoiptechnologies
Technet.en-US.ucccommunitywebconferencing
Technet.en-US.uccommunityexchangeserver
Technet.en-US.virtualmachinemanager
Technet.en-US.virtualmachinemgrclustering
Technet.en-US.virtualmachinemgrproscintegration
Technet.en-US.virtualmachinemgrvmware
Technet.en-US.virtualmachingmgrhyperv
Technet.en-US.virtualmachingmgrsetup
Technet.en-US.visiogeneral
Technet.en-US.w7itproappcompat
Technet.en-US.w7itprogeneral
Technet.en-US.w7itprohardware
Technet.en-US.w7itproinstall
Technet.en-US.w7itpromedia
Technet.en-US.w7itpromedia
Technet.en-US.w7itpronetworking
Technet.en-US.w7itproperf
Technet.en-US.w7itpropoc
Technet.en-US.w7itprosecurity
Technet.en-US.w7itproui
Technet.en-US.w7itprovirt
Technet.en-US.windowsbackup
Technet.en-US.windowsbackup
Technet.en-US.windowsintune
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2branchoffice
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2general
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2highavailability
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2management
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2networking
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2rds
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2virtualization
Technet.en-US.windowsserver2008r2webtechnologies
Technet.en-US.windowssteadystate
Technet.en-US.winserverClustering
Technet.en-US.winservercore
Technet.en-US.winserverDS
Technet.en-US.winserverfiles
Technet.en-US.winservergen
Technet.en-US.winserverhyperv
Technet.en-US.winserverManagement
Technet.en-US.winservermanager
Technet.en-US.winservermedia
Technet.en-US.winserverMigration
Technet.en-US.winserverNAP
Technet.en-US.winserverNIS
Technet.en-US.winserverPN
Technet.en-US.winserverpowershell
Technet.en-US.winserverprint
Technet.en-US.winserversecurity
Technet.en-US.winserversetup
Technet.en-US.winserverwsus
Technet.en-US.word
Technet.es-ES.anuncioses
Technet.es-ES.ases
Technet.es-ES.biztalkes
Technet.es-ES.cualforoes
Technet.es-ES.dynamicses
Technet.es-ES.enterpriseseces
Technet.es-ES.entrenamientoespanaes
Technet.es-ES.entrenamientolatames
Technet.es-ES.eventoslatames
Technet.es-ES.eventosonlinelatames
Technet.es-ES.exceles
Technet.es-ES.exchangees
Technet.es-ES.forefrontedgees
Technet.es-ES.forefrontserveres
Technet.es-ES.hyperves
Technet.es-ES.iees
Technet.es-ES.iises
Technet.es-ES.interoperabilidades
Technet.es-ES.mobilidades
Technet.es-ES.mocses
Technet.es-ES.mosses
Technet.es-ES.mvaes
Technet.es-ES.office2010generales
Technet.es-ES.officees
Technet.es-ES.powershelles
Technet.es-ES.scriptgenerales
Technet.es-ES.seguridades
Technet.es-ES.servgenerales
Technet.es-ES.servinfoeslatames
Technet.es-ES.sugerenciases
Technet.es-ES.systemcenteres
Technet.es-ES.technetpluslatames
Technet.es-ES.virtualpces
Technet.es-ES.virtualserveres
Technet.es-ES.visioes
Technet.es-ES.wcgenerales
Technet.es-ES.wclegacyes
Technet.es-ES.wcspes
Technet.es-ES.wcvistaes
Technet.es-ES.wcxpes
Technet.es-ES.windows7es
Technet.es-ES.windowsappcompates
Technet.es-ES.windowslivees
Technet.es-ES.windowsmobilees
Technet.es-ES.windowsserveres
Technet.es-ES.wsades
Technet.es-ES.wsclusteringes
Technet.es-ES.wsgpes
Technet.es-ES.wsides
Technet.es-ES.wslegacyes
Technet.es-ES.wsmiges
Technet.es-ES.wsnies
Technet.es-ES.wspfes
Technet.es-ES.wssmes
Technet.es-ES.wsstorees
Technet.es-ES.wstses
Technet.es-ES.wsuses
Technet.fr-FR.1070
Technet.fr-FR.1071
Technet.fr-FR.1072
Technet.fr-FR.1073
Technet.fr-FR.1078
Technet.fr-FR.1082
Technet.fr-FR.1085
Technet.fr-FR.1092
Technet.fr-FR.1101
Technet.fr-FR.1104
Technet.fr-FR.1109
Technet.fr-FR.1115
Technet.fr-FR.1117
Technet.fr-FR.1120
Technet.fr-FR.1121
Technet.fr-FR.1124
Technet.fr-FR.1133
Technet.fr-FR.1134
Technet.fr-FR.1135
Technet.fr-FR.1136
Technet.fr-FR.1137
Technet.fr-FR.1140
Technet.fr-FR.1155
Technet.fr-FR.1156
Technet.fr-FR.1300
Technet.fr-FR.1635
Technet.fr-FR.1684
Technet.fr-FR.1685
Technet.fr-FR.1690
Technet.fr-FR.2059
Technet.fr-FR.2168
Technet.fr-FR.2225
Technet.fr-FR.2226
Technet.fr-FR.howtoforumfr
Technet.fr-FR.messageshorscontextefr
Technet.fr-FR.office2010tnfr
Technet.fr-FR.sharepoint2010tnfr
Technet.fr-FR.win7fr
Technet.fr-FR.windowsserver2008fr
Technet.hu-HU.1351
Technet.hu-HU.1352
Technet.hu-HU.1355
Technet.hu-HU.1356
Technet.hu-HU.1357
Technet.hu-HU.1358
Technet.hu-HU.1359
Technet.hu-HU.1365
Technet.hu-HU.1369
Technet.hu-HU.1370
Technet.hu-HU.1371
Technet.hu-HU.1372
Technet.hu-HU.1375
Technet.hu-HU.1379
Technet.hu-HU.1382
Technet.hu-HU.1383
Technet.hu-HU.1386
Technet.hu-HU.1387
Technet.hu-HU.1389
Technet.hu-HU.1392
Technet.hu-HU.1583
Technet.hu-HU.2153
Technet.hu-HU.2227
Technet.id-ID.msofficesystemid
Technet.id-ID.sqlserverid
Technet.id-ID.unifiedcommid
Technet.id-ID.winclientid
Technet.id-ID.windowsserverid
Technet.ja-JP.1858
Technet.ja-JP.activedirectoryja
Technet.ja-JP.appvja
Technet.ja-JP.communicationsserverja
Technet.ja-JP.configmgrja
Technet.ja-JP.crmja
Technet.ja-JP.exchange2003ja
Technet.ja-JP.exchange2007ja
Technet.ja-JP.exchangeserver2010ja
Technet.ja-JP.forefrontclientja
Technet.ja-JP.forefrontserverja
Technet.ja-JP.hypervja
Technet.ja-JP.iis7ja
Technet.ja-JP.iisgeneralja
Technet.ja-JP.iisphpkitja
Technet.ja-JP.imejp2010
Technet.ja-JP.internetexplorerja
Technet.ja-JP.isaserverja
Technet.ja-JP.office2010generalja
Technet.ja-JP.opsmgrja
Technet.ja-JP.powershellja
Technet.ja-JP.projectprofessional2010generalja
Technet.ja-JP.projectserver2010generalja
Technet.ja-JP.securityjp
Technet.ja-JP.sharepoint2010generalja
Technet.ja-JP.systemcenterja
Technet.ja-JP.technetsubscriptionja
Technet.ja-JP.technetvirtuallabja
Technet.ja-JP.virtualizationja
Technet.ja-JP.virtualpcja
Technet.ja-JP.visio2010generalja
Technet.ja-JP.w7itprohardwareja
Technet.ja-JP.win7commja
Technet.ja-JP.windowshomeservergenericja
Technet.ja-JP.windowsserver2003ja
Technet.ja-JP.windowsserver2008ja
Technet.ja-JP.windowsserver2008r2ja
Technet.ja-JP.windowsvistahardwareja
Technet.ja-JP.windowsvistaja
Technet.ja-JP.windowsvistasoftwareja
Technet.ja-JP.wsusja
Technet.ko-KR.675
Technet.ko-KR.biztalkserverko
Technet.ko-KR.exchangeserverko
Technet.ko-KR.isaserverko
Technet.ko-KR.livecommunciationsserverko
Technet.ko-KR.momsmsmofko
Technet.ko-KR.projectserverko
Technet.ko-KR.sharepointportalserverko
Technet.ko-KR.sqlserverko
Technet.ko-KR.visualstudioko
Technet.ko-KR.windowsserverko
Technet.pt-BR.admingeralpt
Technet.pt-BR.ansuppt
Technet.pt-BR.appcenterpt
Technet.pt-BR.arquiteturainfrapt
Technet.pt-BR.biz2006pt
Technet.pt-BR.cermicrosoftpt
Technet.pt-BR.contechnetpt
Technet.pt-BR.dbaespecplatpt
Technet.pt-BR.dynamicspt
Technet.pt-BR.epmpt
Technet.pt-BR.especinfrapt
Technet.pt-BR.especsegpt
Technet.pt-BR.exc2003pt
Technet.pt-BR.exc2007pt
Technet.pt-BR.excoldpt
Technet.pt-BR.feetechnetpt
Technet.pt-BR.foradoassuntotechnet
Technet.pt-BR.forefrontpt
Technet.pt-BR.gerentetipt
Technet.pt-BR.hypervpt
Technet.pt-BR.infrageral
Technet.pt-BR.interoppt
Technet.pt-BR.isa2000pt
Technet.pt-BR.isa2004pt
Technet.pt-BR.isa2006pt
Technet.pt-BR.mofitilcobitpt
Technet.pt-BR.mompt
Technet.pt-BR.mosspt
Technet.pt-BR.ocslivcommpt
Technet.pt-BR.offdeploypt
Technet.pt-BR.officept
Technet.pt-BR.officeserverpt
Technet.pt-BR.queforumtechnet
Technet.pt-BR.scriptadminpt
Technet.pt-BR.segcertifpt
Technet.pt-BR.seginfopt
Technet.pt-BR.segtoolspt
Technet.pt-BR.segviruspt
Technet.pt-BR.smspt
Technet.pt-BR.sps2003pt
Technet.pt-BR.sqlserver2000pt
Technet.pt-BR.sqlserver2005pt
Technet.pt-BR.sqlserver7pt
Technet.pt-BR.syscenterpt
Technet.pt-BR.virserverpt
Technet.pt-BR.win2000pt
Technet.pt-BR.win9xntpt
Technet.pt-BR.winhpcpt
Technet.pt-BR.winiispt
Technet.pt-BR.winmobilept
Technet.pt-BR.winsbspt
Technet.pt-BR.winsrv2000pt
Technet.pt-BR.winsrv2003pt
Technet.pt-BR.winsrv2008pt
Technet.pt-BR.winsrvnt4pt
Technet.pt-BR.winvistapt
Technet.pt-BR.winvistapt
Technet.pt-BR.winxppt
Technet.pt-BR.wsspt
Technet.ro-RO.officero
Technet.ro-RO.securityro
Technet.ro-RO.systemcenterro
Technet.ro-RO.ucro
Technet.ro-RO.windows7ro
Technet.ro-RO.windowsserverro
Technet.ru-RU.aboutru
Technet.ru-RU.adru
Technet.ru-RU.biztalkru
Technet.ru-RU.defotherru
Technet.ru-RU.dynamicsru
Technet.ru-RU.educationru
Technet.ru-RU.exchange2010ru
Technet.ru-RU.feedbackru
Technet.ru-RU.forefrontru
Technet.ru-RU.homeserverru
Technet.ru-RU.hpc2008ru
Technet.ru-RU.isaru
Technet.ru-RU.itru
Technet.ru-RU.licenseru
Technet.ru-RU.mcpclubru
Technet.ru-RU.mofru
Technet.ru-RU.momru
Technet.ru-RU.msoclientru
Technet.ru-RU.msoserverru
Technet.ru-RU.ocsacru
Technet.ru-RU.ocscsru
Technet.ru-RU.ocses2007ru
Technet.ru-RU.ocsesru
Technet.ru-RU.proposalru
Technet.ru-RU.scrlangru
Technet.ru-RU.sharedru
Technet.ru-RU.smsru
Technet.ru-RU.sqlru
Technet.ru-RU.virtualizationru
Technet.ru-RU.vistaru
Technet.ru-RU.windows7ru
Technet.ru-RU.windowsserverru
Technet.ru-RU.ws2008r2ru
Technet.ru-RU.ws2008ru
Technet.ru-RU.wsusru
Technet.ru-RU.xpru
Technet.zh-CN.2003
Technet.zh-CN.2003
Technet.zh-CN.biztalkserverzhchs
Technet.zh-CN.exchangeserverzhchs
Technet.zh-CN.sqlserverzhchs
Technet.zh-TW.1035
Technet.zh-TW.1036
Technet.zh-TW.2014
Technet.zh-TW.announcementszhcht
Technet.zh-TW.announcementszhcht
Technet.zh-TW.biztalkserverzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.ehomezhcht
Technet.zh-TW.exchangezhcht
Technet.zh-TW.forumssitesuggestionszhcht
Technet.zh-TW.iezhcht
Technet.zh-TW.in8beta2zhcht
Technet.zh-TW.isaserferforefrontsecurityzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.officecommunicationsserverzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.officeperformancepointserverzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.officevisiozhcht
Technet.zh-TW.officezhcht
Technet.zh-TW.officezhcht
Technet.zh-TW.powershellzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.sharepointserviceszhcht
Technet.zh-TW.smallbusinessserverzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.sqlservermanagementzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.systemcenterzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.technetwebcaseszhcht
Technet.zh-TW.windows7cht
Technet.zh-TW.windowsmobiledevicezhcht
Technet.zh-TW.windowsserver2008zhcht
Technet.zh-TW.windowsvistaclientzhcht
Technet.zh-TW.windowsvistazhcht
Technet.zh-TW.winserverzhcht
--
Julien ÉLIE

« Memoriam quoque ipsam cum uoce perdidissemus,
si tam in nostra potestate esset obliuisci quam tacere. » (Tacite, _Vie
d'Agricola_)
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-22 03:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julien ÉLIE
For those interested in the current list of newsgroups as they appear
in NNTP Bridge (the new application linked to Microsoft Forums),
here there are.
Yes, there are Windows 7 newsgroups, Sharepoint 2010 newsgroups, etc.
Before removing the MS groups, consider the following:

*Speed*
=====
Downloading 72K headers from a NNTP-bridged-group took about 1 hour,
compare this to downloading 100K headers from the newsserver of my ISP
which only takes 45 seconds.

*NNTP*
====
1) The NNTP bridge does not support pipelining.

2) (X)OVER: the NNTP bridge does not support the
"open end range" when using (X)OVER commands, IOW;
[rx] 211 2427 1 2427 Answers.nl-NL.windows7nl
[tx] XOVER 1-
[rx] 501 A syntax error occurred while processing the command request.

3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this can have
some serious side-effects when the header download is interrupted and
continued later (missing article numbers).

4) Unlike many other servers it gives an invalid response to:
[tx] LIST OVERVIEW.FMT
[rx] 215 Listing of newsgroups follows.
<all available newsgroups>
Most servers will respond in a more appropriate manner even if the server
doesn't know how to handle the CAPABILITIES command and/or does not
advertise LIST OVERVIEW.FMT.
The CAPABILITIES of the NNTP bridge only shows a single LIST entry (among
some others), to me that means that any other LIST command should
give an error instead of some "random" LIST response.

5) NEWGROUPS is not handled correctly.

6) LIST is not handled correctly.
in the resulting list the high and low numbers are reversed.

IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
--
Pieter

"It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to
students that have had prior exposure to Basic; as potential
programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of
regeneration." -- Edsger Dijkstra
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-22 03:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by Julien ÉLIE
For those interested in the current list of newsgroups as they appear
in NNTP Bridge (the new application linked to Microsoft Forums),
here there are.
Yes, there are Windows 7 newsgroups, Sharepoint 2010 newsgroups, etc.
*Speed*
=====
Downloading 72K headers from a NNTP-bridged-group took about 1 hour,
compare this to downloading 100K headers from the newsserver of my ISP
which only takes 45 seconds.
*NNTP*
====
1) The NNTP bridge does not support pipelining.
2) (X)OVER: the NNTP bridge does not support the
"open end range" when using (X)OVER commands, IOW;
[rx] 211 2427 1 2427 Answers.nl-NL.windows7nl
[tx] XOVER 1-
[rx] 501 A syntax error occurred while processing the command request.
3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this can have
some serious side-effects when the header download is interrupted and
continued later (missing article numbers).
[tx] LIST OVERVIEW.FMT
[rx] 215 Listing of newsgroups follows.
<all available newsgroups>
Most servers will respond in a more appropriate manner even if the
server doesn't know how to handle the CAPABILITIES command and/or does
not advertise LIST OVERVIEW.FMT.
The CAPABILITIES of the NNTP bridge only shows a single LIST entry
(among some others), to me that means that any other LIST command should
give an error instead of some "random" LIST response.
5) NEWGROUPS is not handled correctly.
6) LIST is not handled correctly.
in the resulting list the high and low numbers are reversed.
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Are you attempting to access as if Microsoft is continuing use net access?
Are you attempting to use your personal private closed access for
public distribution?
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-22 03:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Are you attempting to access as if Microsoft is continuing use net access?
Are you attempting to use your personal private closed access for
public distribution?
Nope, just testing the NNTP bridge against (NNTP) RFCs.
--
Pieter

"We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents."
-- Bob Ross, "The Joy of Painting"
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-22 03:46:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Are you attempting to access as if Microsoft is continuing use net access?
Are you attempting to use your personal private closed access for
public distribution?
Nope, just testing the NNTP bridge against (NNTP) RFCs.
Thanks, clarified. Certain aspects, as has been slightly explained on
Microsoft, will not apparently be the same as are normally found via
other standard NNTP offerings [it is something new *within* Microsoft],
hence the bridge. Of course it is still a work in progress, though I
wouldn't expect it to ever follow (NNTP) RFCs as it is "internal" to
Microsoft and is not apparently intended for use net or external
distribution [hence may deliberately not support standard commands], its
apparently more of an offering for a common user using/needing just a
few groups for support purposes, of course that's just my thoughts.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-22 03:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Are you attempting to access as if Microsoft is continuing use net access?
Are you attempting to use your personal private closed access for
public distribution?
Nope, just testing the NNTP bridge against (NNTP) RFCs.
Thanks, clarified. Certain aspects, as has been slightly explained on
Microsoft, will not apparently be the same as are normally found via
other standard NNTP offerings [it is something new within Microsoft],
hence the bridge.
It shouldn't be, they (should) have enough experience in this area.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Of course it is still a work in progress,
I can understand that, hence me posting here about the shortcomings of the
current implementation in the hope that it will be fixed in the next
release.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
though I wouldn't expect it to ever follow (NNTP) RFCs
Then what is the point of offering this NNTP bridge?
--
Pieter

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees."
-- Jason Kidd, upon his drafting to the Dallas Mavericks
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-22 04:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Are you attempting to access as if Microsoft is continuing use net access?
Are you attempting to use your personal private closed access for
public distribution?
Nope, just testing the NNTP bridge against (NNTP) RFCs.
Thanks, clarified. Certain aspects, as has been slightly explained on
Microsoft, will not apparently be the same as are normally found via
other standard NNTP offerings [it is something new within Microsoft],
hence the bridge.
It shouldn't be, they (should) have enough experience in this area.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Of course it is still a work in progress,
I can understand that, hence me posting here about the shortcomings of
the current implementation in the hope that it will be fixed in the next
release.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
though I wouldn't expect it to ever follow (NNTP) RFCs
Then what is the point of offering this NNTP bridge?
Oh come on, you cut the offered explanation:

-quote
.. and is not apparently intended for use net or external
distribution [hence may deliberately not support standard commands], its
apparently more of an offering for a common user using/needing just a
few groups for support purposes,..
-end quote

So since you want to play games:

I see you may not have been entirely honest regarding the apparent
intent and reason for your access and lack of support for NNTP commands
complaint.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-22 23:50:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
though I wouldn't expect it to ever follow (NNTP) RFCs
Then what is the point of offering this NNTP bridge?
-quote
.. and is not apparently intended for use net or external
distribution [hence may deliberately not support standard commands],
its apparently more of an offering for a common user using/needing
just a few groups for support purposes,..
-end quote
It didn't make much sense to me. Maybe I should note that I'm looking at
this from a newsreader coder point of view. The commands I was talking
about are basic commands for communicating with a newsserver.
I don't expect it to support all commands like a modern newsserver (that
was also noted on their web-page; "It is not to be treated as a fully
functional NNTP server."), and that was one of the reasons I didn't
complain too much about the response to the CAPABILITIES command, but I
did expect that the commands they do support would be implemented a little
better.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
I see you may not have been entirely honest regarding the apparent
intent and reason for your access and lack of support for NNTP commands
complaint.
I hope that the above is enough explanation about what I'm doing "here".
--
Pieter

"If I held you any closer I would be on the other side of you."
-- Groucho Marx
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 01:21:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
though I wouldn't expect it to ever follow (NNTP) RFCs
Then what is the point of offering this NNTP bridge?
-quote
.. and is not apparently intended for use net or external
distribution [hence may deliberately not support standard commands],
its apparently more of an offering for a common user using/needing
just a few groups for support purposes,..
-end quote
It didn't make much sense to me. Maybe I should note that I'm looking at
this from a newsreader coder point of view. The commands I was talking
about are basic commands for communicating with a newsserver.
I don't expect it to support all commands like a modern newsserver (that
was also noted on their web-page; "It is not to be treated as a fully
functional NNTP server."), and that was one of the reasons I didn't
complain too much about the response to the CAPABILITIES command, but I
did expect that the commands they do support would be implemented a
little better.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
I see you may not have been entirely honest regarding the apparent
intent and reason for your access and lack of support for NNTP commands
complaint.
I hope that the above is enough explanation about what I'm doing "here".
Okay, I'll again take your word at apparent value. Again it would
appear the intent is to NOT allow any usage which might be considered as
or used in the normal NNTP use net style [or standard for that matter],
or externally save perhaps a single individual's reader.

IF you are having difficulties with your particular reader, then
perhaps direction to the source via ***@microsoft.com and/or other
provided help/support, or the coders themselves [are they here] would
appear to provide a better avenue of address.
I would also imagine attempting to design a "reader" around the present
method of access would not be a good idea as it will change over time
[as it already has] and TOO many failed probes will likely cause the
removal of the access method altogether, as will external activity
outside the intended usage. Since the adverse affect would effect
potentially billions of users, you might wish to take that under
consideration.

If the coders from Microsoft are here in the discussion, then the above
would be superfluous.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-23 02:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Okay, I'll again take your word at apparent value. Again it would
appear the intent is to NOT allow any usage which might be considered
as or used in the normal NNTP use net style [or standard for that
matter], or externally save perhaps a single individual's reader.
Well officially they do attempt to be "NNTP-server" to some newsreaders.

<quote>
Officially, we intend for the end user to use one of the following NNTP
newsreaders to connect to the Bridge at a time: Outlook Express,
Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail, Thunderbird, or Forte Agent.
</quote>
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
IF you are having difficulties with your particular reader,
I don't have any difficulties, remember I'm a coder :)
I did have one minor issue where XN is using the XOVER artile- type of
requesting XOVER data which isn't supported by the NNTP bridge and that
is already "fixed" on my side.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
other provided help/support, or the coders themselves [are they here]
I don't know.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
would appear to provide a better avenue of address.
Indeed ... or a forum/newsgroup on their server about the NNTP bridge.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
I would also imagine attempting to design a "reader" around the
present method of access would not be a good idea as it will change
over time [as it already has]
There is little play-room in how much they can change this, as long as
they are officially supporting the above mentioned "newsreaders".
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
and TOO many failed probes will likely cause the removal of the
access method altogether, as will external activity outside the
intended usage. Since the adverse affect would effect potentially
billions of users, you might wish to take that under consideration.
? (just a question mark as an attempt to keep this thread friendly)
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
If the coders from Microsoft are here in the discussion, then the
above would be superfluous.
I do hope that when v1.2 of the NNTP bridge arrives, some of the issues
mentioned in this thread will be fixed enabling other newsreaders
besides the limited number of newsreaders mentioned to access the
forums.

My real intention of posting in this thread (?), it was basically a
plea towards Julien to not to be to hasty about removing the MS groups
from the usenet hierarchy. At least not until the NNTP bridge is ready
and a somewhat more serious alternative to access the MS forums.
--
Pieter

"A notation is important for what it leaves out."
-- Joseph Stoy
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 03:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Okay, I'll again take your word at apparent value. Again it would
appear the intent is to NOT allow any usage which might be considered
as or used in the normal NNTP use net style [or standard for that
matter], or externally save perhaps a single individual's reader.
Well officially they do attempt to be "NNTP-server" to some newsreaders.
I'm sure you know more about that than I would.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
<quote>
Officially, we intend for the end user to use one of the following NNTP
newsreaders to connect to the Bridge at a time: Outlook Express,
Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail, Thunderbird, or Forte Agent.
</quote>
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
IF you are having difficulties with your particular reader,
I don't have any difficulties, remember I'm a coder :)
I did have one minor issue where XN is using the XOVER artile- type of
requesting XOVER data which isn't supported by the NNTP bridge and that
is already "fixed" on my side.
Yeah I saw that, hadn't got that far with the postings..
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
other provided help/support, or the coders themselves [are they here]
I don't know.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
would appear to provide a better avenue of address.
Indeed ... or a forum/newsgroup on their server about the NNTP bridge.
That would be an excellent suggestion for inclusion, if not already
handled within MS forums.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
I would also imagine attempting to design a "reader" around the
present method of access would not be a good idea as it will change
over time [as it already has]
There is little play-room in how much they can change this, as long as
they are officially supporting the above mentioned "newsreaders".
Again, you would obviously know more about that than I would.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
and TOO many failed probes will likely cause the removal of the
access method altogether, as will external activity outside the
intended usage. Since the adverse affect would effect potentially
billions of users, you might wish to take that under consideration.
? (just a question mark as an attempt to keep this thread friendly)
Well, I think it is intended to be friendly, I would hope anyway.

And for explanation I suppose: I would hate to see the removal of this
offered access for any reason. MS has no real reason to offer the access
in the first place.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
If the coders from Microsoft are here in the discussion, then the
above would be superfluous.
I do hope that when v1.2 of the NNTP bridge arrives, some of the issues
mentioned in this thread will be fixed enabling other newsreaders
besides the limited number of newsreaders mentioned to access the
forums.
Agreed, there appears to be some bugs and issues that need addressed.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
My real intention of posting in this thread (?), it was basically a
plea towards Julien to not to be to hasty about removing the MS groups
from the usenet hierarchy. At least not until the NNTP bridge is ready
and a somewhat more serious alternative to access the MS forums.
I think that may be difficult since Julien is mirroring MS intents and
notice of closing, and actual closing.

Surely [or one would think] use net [big-8] can supply comparable
groups and maintaining servers to cover the loss via alt., comp., or
similar. The MS closing notices are supplied well in advance of any
groups that might be worthwhile and closing; the closings are clearly
staged.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Julien ÉLIE
2010-05-23 09:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi Pieter and MEB,
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
My real intention of posting in this thread (?), it was basically a
plea towards Julien to not to be to hasty about removing the MS groups
from the usenet hierarchy. At least not until the NNTP bridge is ready
and a somewhat more serious alternative to access the MS forums.
I think that may be difficult since Julien is mirroring MS intents and
notice of closing, and actual closing.
I had not planned to remove bunch of newsgroups the very day Microsoft
removes them on its news server.
I will note the removed groups in order (that is to say if there are
removals on June, 1st and then on July, 1st, then the first ones will
be rmgroup'ed before the second ones). I will actually send rmgroup
control articles sporadically -- a few weeks after (or more if need be,
one of the reasons being the one you raise), one per day to begin,
and more afterwards.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Surely [or one would think] use net [big-8] can supply comparable
groups and maintaining servers to cover the loss via alt., comp., or
similar. The MS closing notices are supplied well in advance of any
groups that might be worthwhile and closing; the closings are clearly
staged.
Do people in all these newsgroups responded to these messages to suggest
where to go after the "closing"? Providing links to Microsoft Web Forums,
NNTP Bridge, alt.*, comp.*, free news servers, etc. ?

I looked at a few newsgroups and it was not always the case... :-/
--
Julien ÉLIE

« Boire du café empêche de dormir. Par contre, dormir empêche
de boire du café. » (Philippe Geluck)
hsantos
2010-05-23 15:40:33 UTC
Permalink
IMV, this seems be a very poor and not well thought out migration
plan,
it is like Ray Ozzie mandated,

"I don't care how you do it, get out of it and get rid of it. And
please do not spend too much money on it. Look at the NNTP bridge
as
a simple short term offering and no more. In fact, keep some
irritating issues in it so that it helps promote using our web
sites
and our online access tools. Remember, keep your eye on the prize
-
Microsoft Live Notes!"

Whatever.

I take it when MS says they will be removing groups by activity level
starting June 1 until October 1, I take it they will will have a
custom GROUP command response or template when the client issues the
GROUP command:

411 No such news group. The %s group is now available as the
%s forum at the MS web site: %s

411 No such news group. Use the %s forum at the MS web
site: %s

At the very least they should have a custom response to help the
migration.

I would also think that for the next 4-5 months, there is a
coordination
for usenet removals corresponding to those removed at
news.microsoft.com
first over this period.

--
Hector Santos, CTO
http://www.santronics.com
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Hi Pieter and MEB,
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
My real intention of posting in this thread (?), it was basically a
plea towards Julien to not to be to hasty about removing the MS groups
from the usenet hierarchy. At least not until the NNTP bridge is ready
and a somewhat more serious alternative to access the MS forums.
I think that may be difficult since Julien is mirroring MS intents and
notice of closing, and actual closing.
I had not planned to remove bunch of newsgroups the very day Microsoft
removes them on its news server.
I will note the removed groups in order (that is to say if there are
removals on June, 1st and then on July, 1st, then the first ones will
be rmgroup'ed before the second ones). I will actually send rmgroup
control articles sporadically -- a few weeks after (or more if need be,
one of the reasons being the one you raise), one per day to begin,
and more afterwards.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Surely [or one would think] use net [big-8] can supply comparable
groups and maintaining servers to cover the loss via alt., comp., or
similar. The MS closing notices are supplied well in advance of any
groups that might be worthwhile and closing; the closings are clearly
staged.
Do people in all these newsgroups responded to these messages to suggest
where to go after the "closing"? Providing links to Microsoft Web Forums,
NNTP Bridge, alt.*, comp.*, free news servers, etc. ?
I looked at a few newsgroups and it was not always the case... :-/
--
Julien ÉLIE
« Boire du café empêche de dormir. Par contre, dormir empêche
de boire du café. » (Philippe Geluck)
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 17:15:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Hi Pieter and MEB,
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
My real intention of posting in this thread (?), it was basically a
plea towards Julien to not to be to hasty about removing the MS groups
from the usenet hierarchy. At least not until the NNTP bridge is ready
and a somewhat more serious alternative to access the MS forums.
I think that may be difficult since Julien is mirroring MS intents and
notice of closing, and actual closing.
I had not planned to remove bunch of newsgroups the very day Microsoft
removes them on its news server.
I will note the removed groups in order (that is to say if there are
removals on June, 1st and then on July, 1st, then the first ones will
be rmgroup'ed before the second ones). I will actually send rmgroup
control articles sporadically -- a few weeks after (or more if need be,
one of the reasons being the one you raise), one per day to begin,
and more afterwards.
Well whatever you intend, it would appear that you should make sure you
get the messages out before the next set of closings or YOU then become
the issue for the continued existence since apparently you have parties
respecting your controls *rather than* doing the closings themselves per
the notices. It seems Microsoft is walking the legal path of 30+ days
per group "closing" with notice then closing date notice [maybe more]
[except for those it had little use in, except perhaps spam and junk]
which I presume you have already cleared/closed via control message.
Can't you pre-queue up the messages and "auto" them [gees, you accepted
a lot of responsibility and work for use net and hosts/servers, I hope
they appreciate what you are doing *FOR* them].
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Surely [or one would think] use net [big-8] can supply comparable
groups and maintaining servers to cover the loss via alt., comp., or
similar. The MS closing notices are supplied well in advance of any
groups that might be worthwhile and closing; the closings are clearly
staged.
Do people in all these newsgroups responded to these messages to suggest
where to go after the "closing"? Providing links to Microsoft Web Forums,
NNTP Bridge, alt.*, comp.*, free news servers, etc. ?
I looked at a few newsgroups and it was not always the case... :-/
I haven't seen any [not saying there weren't], other than Microsoft's
direction notice, I have no idea why they aren't having messages placed
if anyone intends to offer an alternative. Presumably Microsoft would
not block properly placed messages containing that contact [without the
expletives of course].
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-23 17:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Can't you pre-queue up the messages and "auto" them
gahh! You can't wait to get M$ off of Usenet can you?
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 17:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Can't you pre-queue up the messages and "auto" them
gahh! You can't wait to get M$ off of Usenet can you?
Hey, you have had plenty of opportunity AND TIME to create
alternatives, if you can't manage to do so in the extended time period,
why do you think you should have more time, when clearly your intention
is to NOT remove the groups at all.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-23 18:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Hey, you have had plenty of opportunity AND TIME to create
alternatives, if you can't manage to do so in the extended time period,
why do you think you should have more time, when clearly your intention
is to NOT remove the groups at all.
Why are you beating a dead horse, and why are you promoting the idea that
you're doing some kind of "public service" here? You're just babbling about
something that doesn't affect or concern you outside the group names offered
by various newservers.

There's nothing the company can do to eliminate the presence of newsgroups with
the companies /or/ it's product *names* from being on Usenet. A reorganization
of the groups into a tree as outlined by Steve Crook is probably preferential,
if anything does happen. If that doesn't occur *other* possibilities include;

a) doing nothing
b) newgrouping in alt.*
c) newgrouping in free.*

If you could bother to telnet news.microsoft.com (or msnews) and type list,
the groups are visible on MS's newserver. ALL of the content on the server
(if there is any) could quickly be injected to Usenet.

I suggest you read and *try* to comprehend this.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx

They're not talking about the entire world. The article concerns MICROSOFT's
chosen avenue, for the reasons stated.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 19:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Hey, you have had plenty of opportunity AND TIME to create
alternatives, if you can't manage to do so in the extended time period,
why do you think you should have more time, when clearly your intention
is to NOT remove the groups at all.
Why are you beating a dead horse, and why are you promoting the idea that
you're doing some kind of "public service" here? You're just babbling about
something that doesn't affect or concern you outside the group names offered
by various newservers.
There's nothing the company can do to eliminate the presence of newsgroups with
the companies /or/ it's product *names* from being on Usenet. A reorganization
of the groups into a tree as outlined by Steve Crook is probably preferential,
if anything does happen. If that doesn't occur *other* possibilities include;
a) doing nothing
b) newgrouping in alt.*
c) newgrouping in free.*
If you could bother to telnet news.microsoft.com (or msnews) and type list,
the groups are visible on MS's newserver. ALL of the content on the server
(if there is any) could quickly be injected to Usenet.
I suggest you read and *try* to comprehend this.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx
They're not talking about the entire world. The article concerns MICROSOFT's
chosen avenue, for the reasons stated.
I would suggest you read ALL of Microsoft's legal documentation and
what is authorized.

You try to use the private closed access and extend/offer that to use
net or on your personal service, and I would imagine it would receive an
instant response which you would be liable for... Microsoft has pulled
all of its support forum avenues to itself.

so let's make that perfectly clear here.
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Steve Crook
2010-05-23 20:22:24 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:07:13 -0400, MEB.peoplescounsel wrote in
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
so let's make that perfectly clear here.
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
MEB, yes, I think that pretty well sums it up. Robb along with me and
many other providers of Usenet groups do so without any form of
authorisation. To my knowledge, no authorisation has ever been sought
and no copyright holder has ever objected to their name being used in
a Usenet group.

As for them being Microsoft's forums, they don't belong to Microsoft at
all. That's like saying my Laptop belongs to Microsoft because there's
a Microsoft license sticker on the back of it. I own the microsoft
hierarchy on my server. It sits on my disk and users accessing it
consume my bandwidth.

I am happy to continue providing access to newsgroups with microsoft in
the name in the belief that if Microsoft are in any way unhappy about it
they will contact me first to discuss it rather than sending round the
heavy mob. If they should contact me then please be assured that I'll
make the Usenet community aware of it.

Despite all that, I won't host a bunch of static groups that nobody
maintains. I'm sure there's somebody out there with an interest in both
Usenet and Microsoft with the time and inclination to take up the task.
Hopefully I won't be proved wrong.
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 20:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Crook
On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:07:13 -0400, MEB.peoplescounsel wrote in
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
so let's make that perfectly clear here.
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
MEB, yes, I think that pretty well sums it up. Robb along with me and
many other providers of Usenet groups do so without any form of
authorisation. To my knowledge, no authorisation has ever been sought
and no copyright holder has ever objected to their name being used in
a Usenet group.
As for them being Microsoft's forums, they don't belong to Microsoft at
all. That's like saying my Laptop belongs to Microsoft because there's
a Microsoft license sticker on the back of it. I own the microsoft
hierarchy on my server. It sits on my disk and users accessing it
consume my bandwidth.
Ah yes Microsoft DOES own the hierarchy, in the same form as you and
those like you claiming you OWN those you create yourselves.

Doesn't matter about what your purported "server" is doing or
supplying, what matters is whether you HAVE the authority to offer it in
the first place, which you don't.

Oh, you own the hardware but Microsoft OWNS the software, you just have
a limited and restrictive license to "use" it.
Post by Steve Crook
I am happy to continue providing access to newsgroups with microsoft in
the name in the belief that if Microsoft are in any way unhappy about it
they will contact me first to discuss it rather than sending round the
heavy mob. If they should contact me then please be assured that I'll
make the Usenet community aware of it.
They already did, you received multiple notices in the groups WITH a
contact address should you wish to discuss the matter.
Post by Steve Crook
Despite all that, I won't host a bunch of static groups that nobody
maintains. I'm sure there's somebody out there with an interest in both
Usenet and Microsoft with the time and inclination to take up the task.
Hopefully I won't be proved wrong.
Then please post your personal contact information, and other
identifications, such as registered domain, etc..
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-23 22:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Crook
On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:07:13 -0400, MEB.peoplescounsel wrote in
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
so let's make that perfectly clear here.
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
MEB, yes, I think that pretty well sums it up. Robb along with me and
many other providers of Usenet groups do so without any form of
authorisation. To my knowledge, no authorisation has ever been sought
and no copyright holder has ever objected to their name being used in
a Usenet group.
As for them being Microsoft's forums, they don't belong to Microsoft at
all. That's like saying my Laptop belongs to Microsoft because there's
a Microsoft license sticker on the back of it. I own the microsoft
hierarchy on my server. It sits on my disk and users accessing it
consume my bandwidth.
I am happy to continue providing access to newsgroups with microsoft in
the name in the belief that if Microsoft are in any way unhappy about it
they will contact me first to discuss it rather than sending round the
heavy mob. If they should contact me then please be assured that I'll
make the Usenet community aware of it.
Despite all that, I won't host a bunch of static groups that nobody
maintains. I'm sure there's somebody out there with an interest in both
Usenet and Microsoft with the time and inclination to take up the task.
Hopefully I won't be proved wrong.
Ok, I'm in. Call me at the usual place. Seriously, it's a lot of groups
and someone needs to start kicking this uphill sooner, rather than later.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
Steve Crook
2010-05-24 08:19:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:24:39 -0500, Robb wrote in
Post by Robb
Ok, I'm in. Call me at the usual place. Seriously, it's a lot of groups
and someone needs to start kicking this uphill sooner, rather than later.
Hi Robb,

Suggest you start a new thread in just news.admin.hierarchies so that
that your offer doesn't get lost in the noise.
Julien ÉLIE
2010-05-24 08:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi Steve,
Post by Steve Crook
On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:24:39 -0500, Robb wrote in
Post by Robb
Ok, I'm in. Call me at the usual place. Seriously, it's a lot of groups
and someone needs to start kicking this uphill sooner, rather than later.
Suggest you start a new thread in just news.admin.hierarchies so that
that your offer doesn't get lost in the noise.
There are tons of groups, probably too many. Especially when there
are localized... How to know if a newsgroup should exist in microsoft.*
localized in English, French, German, Arabic, Spanish, Greek, Russian,
Italian, etc. ?

Is it still useful to have them, instead of what already exists, or
what may be created in localized hierarchies? For instance in fr.*,
we have:

* fr.comp.os.msdos
* fr.comp.os.ms-windows
* fr.comp.os.ms-windows.programmation
* fr.comp.os.ms-windows.serveurs

and others for themes like mail.

Is it really worthwhile duplicating that?
--
Julien ÉLIE

« Pas question de faire voler un tapis volé ! » (Astérix)
Steve Crook
2010-05-24 11:28:39 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 May 2010 10:44:19 +0200, Julien ÉLIE wrote in
Post by Julien ÉLIE
There are tons of groups, probably too many. Especially when there
are localized... How to know if a newsgroup should exist in microsoft.*
localized in English, French, German, Arabic, Spanish, Greek, Russian,
Italian, etc. ?
Hi Julien,

I agree, there are too many groups. Regarding the localised groups that
already exist, I think we should retain those as is, at least for now,
otherwise the scope of this exercise will become unmanageable (if it
isn't already!).

If the decision is to retain the current microsoft hierarchy then
perhaps there should be a period of reorganisation so that locale
specific groups are recreated in the region specific hierarchies
(where IMO they should be). This would impact sub-hierarchies like:
microsoft.public.cn
microsoft.public.de

For the non-localised groups, I'm in favour of reorganising
them under comp.* but that's an awful lot of work for someone to take
on. I guess it would have to be phased, based on the usage of the
existing groups.
Junior
2010-05-24 08:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Crook
On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:24:39 -0500, Robb wrote in
Post by Robb
Ok, I'm in. Call me at the usual place. Seriously, it's a lot of groups
and someone needs to start kicking this uphill sooner, rather than later.
Hi Robb,
Suggest you start a new thread in just news.admin.hierarchies so that
that your offer doesn't get lost in the noise.
Has it already been decided to move these groups to Bambi territory?
Whatever the case; I think alt.free.newsservers should be included
in the discussions.

One thing that isn't clear, to me, is if Microsoft actually has a
problem with the microsoft.public.* hierarchy remaining on usenet.
Since these groups are still quite active, it would not be a good
move, in the PR department, for them to insist on their removal.
--
DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors.
From THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY ((C)1911 Released April 15 1993)
Steve Crook
2010-05-24 11:35:49 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 May 2010 08:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Junior wrote in
Post by Junior
Has it already been decided to move these groups to Bambi territory?
Hi Junior,
I believe no decisions have been made so far, except that something
needs to happen. :)
Post by Junior
Whatever the case; I think alt.free.newsservers should be included
in the discussions.
Fine by me, I was really just suggesting that if Robb is offering to
take up the task of future MS group management then he should make that
clear in a new thread so it doesn't get lost in the noise.
Post by Junior
One thing that isn't clear, to me, is if Microsoft actually has a
problem with the microsoft.public.* hierarchy remaining on usenet.
Since these groups are still quite active, it would not be a good
move, in the PR department, for them to insist on their removal.
Despite differing views, I personally think it's very unlikely they are
going to make an issue about it. The only motivation might be if users
of those fora retain an expectation that Microsoft are going to answer
all their questions.
Robb
2010-05-24 23:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Crook
On Mon, 24 May 2010 08:46:29 +0000 (UTC), Junior wrote in
Post by Junior
Has it already been decided to move these groups to Bambi territory?
Hi Junior,
I believe no decisions have been made so far, except that something
needs to happen. :)
Post by Junior
Whatever the case; I think alt.free.newsservers should be included
in the discussions.
Fine by me, I was really just suggesting that if Robb is offering to
take up the task of future MS group management then he should make that
clear in a new thread so it doesn't get lost in the noise.
Working on the post.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
Adam H. Kerman
2010-05-24 17:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by Steve Crook
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
so let's make that perfectly clear here.
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
MEB, yes, I think that pretty well sums it up. Robb along with me and
many other providers of Usenet groups do so without any form of
authorisation. To my knowledge, no authorisation has ever been sought
and no copyright holder has ever objected to their name being used in
a Usenet group.
As for them being Microsoft's forums, they don't belong to Microsoft at
all. That's like saying my Laptop belongs to Microsoft because there's
a Microsoft license sticker on the back of it. I own the microsoft
hierarchy on my server. It sits on my disk and users accessing it
consume my bandwidth.
I am happy to continue providing access to newsgroups with microsoft in
the name in the belief that if Microsoft are in any way unhappy about it
they will contact me first to discuss it rather than sending round the
heavy mob. If they should contact me then please be assured that I'll
make the Usenet community aware of it.
Despite all that, I won't host a bunch of static groups that nobody
maintains. I'm sure there's somebody out there with an interest in both
Usenet and Microsoft with the time and inclination to take up the task.
Hopefully I won't be proved wrong.
Ok, I'm in. Call me at the usual place. Seriously, it's a lot of groups
and someone needs to start kicking this uphill sooner, rather than later.
So you're writing a client that interacts with another client to write an
actual bridge to an NNTP server that implements what the name of the
Microsoft client's name suggest it does but doesn't.

Hm. This is going to be a miserable experience for those posting from
the Usenet side. If someone posts a message from the Web, is it right for
him to expect that his message won't end up in another media? I always
like to think so. I know I despise certain Web sites that pretend to offer
content and have user participation in forums, but all they've done is
added a newsgroup interface to pretend they have users.

Could you name these newsgroups microsoft.answers.* at least? Using
answers.* at a top-level hierarchy would be a rotten idea.
Robb
2010-05-23 23:11:02 UTC
Permalink
MEB wrote:

Snip
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
You try to use the private closed access and extend/offer that to use
net or on your personal service, and I would imagine it would receive an
instant response which you would be liable for... Microsoft has pulled
all of its support forum avenues to itself.
Sure they have. That explains why I have a single file on disk of 60,549,946
bytes which comprises articles posted to Technet.en-US.w7itproinstall, since
May 5, 2008. Articles which seemingly 'belong' to the respective authors.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
Nah. That info is historical bullshit. Take it to the Texas Secretary of
State's office if you have a complaint. If you have a complaint with our
Usenet service, or with myself, I suggest you review the terms of service
at this link: http://www.shared-secrets.com

Finally, consider Steve Crooks excellent reply to this brou-ha-ha as if it were
my own, his post thoroughly reflects my totally uninformed opinion, after all I
just got here last week.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 23:49:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Snip
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
You try to use the private closed access and extend/offer that to use
net or on your personal service, and I would imagine it would receive an
instant response which you would be liable for... Microsoft has pulled
all of its support forum avenues to itself.
Sure they have. That explains why I have a single file on disk of 60,549,946
bytes which comprises articles posted to Technet.en-US.w7itproinstall, since
May 5, 2008. Articles which seemingly 'belong' to the respective authors.
And you obtained that by...
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
You, Robb, of shared-secrets.com and the LLC of Shared Secrets Peanuts
Bexar County Tx. U.S.A., will not remove Microsoft's groups AND you
intend to offer un-authorized access to Microsoft's forums, is that correct?
Nah. That info is historical bullshit. Take it to the Texas Secretary of
State's office if you have a complaint. If you have a complaint with our
Usenet service, or with myself, I suggest you review the terms of service
at this link: http://www.shared-secrets.com
So your TOS beats Microsoft's? And should protect you and not
Microsoft's per its own and other controlling Law?
Or is it, you think you have more rights than Microsoft?

BTW: having an LLC also places you distinctly under federal Law, you are
aware of that aren't you?
Post by Robb
Finally, consider Steve Crooks excellent reply to this brou-ha-ha as if it were
my own, his post thoroughly reflects my totally uninformed opinion, after all I
just got here last week.
The only thing that Steve suggested worth much was that comparable
groups should be created elsewhere in use net, so no matter how long you
have been here or what you THINK you know, means squat.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-24 01:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Or is it, you think you have more rights than Microsoft?
Equal to at the very least. What on earth would cause you think otherwise?
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
BTW: having an LLC also places you distinctly under federal Law, you are
aware of that aren't you?
You're aware that posting private/personal information to Usenet without
said persons approval/permission may violate any number of laws? Are you
also aware that every citizen of the United States is distinctly UNDER
US Federal law? Please don't lecture me on corporate law here, you're too
inexperienced and ill-prepared for the task.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-24 01:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Or is it, you think you have more rights than Microsoft?
Equal to at the very least. What on earth would cause you think otherwise?
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
BTW: having an LLC also places you distinctly under federal Law, you are
aware of that aren't you?
You're aware that posting private/personal information to Usenet without
said persons approval/permission may violate any number of laws? Are you
also aware that every citizen of the United States is distinctly UNDER
US Federal law? Please don't lecture me on corporate law here, you're too
inexperienced and ill-prepared for the task.
Yes I am aware of what can be and can not be. I'm not lecturing you,
not even "advising" you. I would still, however, suggest you might spend
some time reviewing the Law and other applicable to your intended
activities.
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-24 01:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Yes I am aware of what can be and can not be. I'm not lecturing you,
not even "advising" you. I would still, however, suggest you might spend
some time reviewing the Law and other applicable to your intended
activities.
I do on a continuing basis, however it may help for you to search for
"internet" @ The Library of Congress > THOMAS Home > Bills, Resolutions,
here: http://thomas.loc.gov


Same search here: http://uscode.house.gov/search/criteria.shtml
It's going to take time, but if you're determined, eventually you may
catch up.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-24 01:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Yes I am aware of what can be and can not be. I'm not lecturing you,
not even "advising" you. I would still, however, suggest you might spend
some time reviewing the Law and other applicable to your intended
activities.
I do on a continuing basis, however it may help for you to search for
here: http://thomas.loc.gov
Same search here: http://uscode.house.gov/search/criteria.shtml
It's going to take time, but if you're determined, eventually you may
catch up.
Ah gees, you are persistent aren't you. I'll remind you that you
dropped into to the discussion, you raised purported issues you thought
relevant, I responded to YOUR entries.

Now while you are reviewing the Laws [which you sorely need to do], you
MIGHT want to drop over to the U.S. Supreme Court and peruse through
what they find pursuant to various things that might be involved...
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-24 02:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Yes I am aware of what can be and can not be. I'm not lecturing you,
not even "advising" you. I would still, however, suggest you might spend
some time reviewing the Law and other applicable to your intended
activities.
I do on a continuing basis, however it may help for you to search for
here: http://thomas.loc.gov
Same search here: http://uscode.house.gov/search/criteria.shtml
It's going to take time, but if you're determined, eventually you may
catch up.
Ah gees, you are persistent aren't you. I'll remind you that you
dropped into to the discussion, you raised purported issues you thought
relevant, I responded to YOUR entries.
Now while you are reviewing the Laws [which you sorely need to do], you
MIGHT want to drop over to the U.S. Supreme Court and peruse through
what they find pursuant to various things that might be involved...
Oh sorry, you might also want to search around on lexis-nexis, the U.S.
district courts, look at West Law or similar legal references, hit the
unpublished rulings, and... uh, right you already know about all this...
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Seth
2010-06-06 02:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
BTW: having an LLC also places you distinctly under federal Law, you are
aware of that aren't you?
Being in the US places you under federal law, whether or not you have
an LLC.
Post by Robb
You're aware that posting private/personal information to Usenet without
said persons approval/permission may violate any number of laws?
Then again, it may not. Posting page 137 of the Manhattan phone book
is stupid and boring, not illegal.
Post by Robb
Are you also aware that every citizen of the United States is
distinctly UNDER US Federal law?
As well as non-citizen residents, visitors, and anyone else the US
gets its hands on.

Seth
Whiskers
2010-06-06 15:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
BTW: having an LLC also places you distinctly under federal Law, you are
aware of that aren't you?
Being in the US places you under federal law, whether or not you have
an LLC.
Post by Robb
You're aware that posting private/personal information to Usenet without
said persons approval/permission may violate any number of laws?
Then again, it may not. Posting page 137 of the Manhattan phone book
is stupid and boring, not illegal.
Post by Robb
Are you also aware that every citizen of the United States is
distinctly UNDER US Federal law?
As well as non-citizen residents, visitors, and anyone else the US
gets its hands on.
... unless the US decides that US law /doesn't/ apply; as in Guantanamo
Bay.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 17:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Hi Pieter and MEB,
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
My real intention of posting in this thread (?), it was basically a
plea towards Julien to not to be to hasty about removing the MS groups
from the usenet hierarchy. At least not until the NNTP bridge is ready
and a somewhat more serious alternative to access the MS forums.
I think that may be difficult since Julien is mirroring MS intents and
notice of closing, and actual closing.
I had not planned to remove bunch of newsgroups the very day Microsoft
removes them on its news server.
I will note the removed groups in order (that is to say if there are
removals on June, 1st and then on July, 1st, then the first ones will
be rmgroup'ed before the second ones). I will actually send rmgroup
control articles sporadically -- a few weeks after (or more if need be,
one of the reasons being the one you raise), one per day to begin,
and more afterwards.
Well whatever you intend, it would appear that you should make sure you
get the messages out before the next set of closings or YOU then become
the issue for the continued existence since apparently you have parties
respecting your controls *rather than* doing the closings themselves per
the notices. It seems Microsoft is walking the legal path of 30+ days
per group "closing" with notice then closing date notice [maybe more]
[except for those it had little use in, except perhaps spam and junk]
which I presume you have already cleared/closed via control message.
Can't you pre-queue up the messages and "auto" them [gees, you accepted
a lot of responsibility and work for use net and hosts/servers, I hope
they appreciate what you are doing *FOR* them].
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me re-write that.

Well whatever you intend, it would appear that you should make sure you
get the messages out before the next set of closings or YOU then become
the issue for the continued existence since apparently you have parties
respecting your controls *rather than* doing the closings themselves per
the notices. It seems Microsoft is walking the legal path of 30+ days
[or similar] per group "closing" with: notice; the closing date notice;
then actual closing [and maybe a reminder or so] [except for those
Microsoft had little use in, except for spam and junk, which I presume
you have already cleared/closed via control message].

Can't you pre-queue up the messages and "auto" them [within Microsoft's
time period]. Gees, you accepted a lot of responsibility and work for
use net and hosts/servers, I hope they appreciate what you are doing
*FOR* them.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Surely [or one would think] use net [big-8] can supply comparable
groups and maintaining servers to cover the loss via alt., comp., or
similar. The MS closing notices are supplied well in advance of any
groups that might be worthwhile and closing; the closings are clearly
staged.
Do people in all these newsgroups responded to these messages to suggest
where to go after the "closing"? Providing links to Microsoft Web Forums,
NNTP Bridge, alt.*, comp.*, free news servers, etc. ?
I looked at a few newsgroups and it was not always the case... :-/
I haven't seen any [not saying there weren't], other than Microsoft's
direction notice, I have no idea why they aren't having messages placed
if anyone intends to offer an alternative. Presumably Microsoft would
not block properly placed messages containing that contact [without the
expletives of course].
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-23 17:50:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me re-write that.
Geezus H. trim your posts!
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 17:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me re-write that.
Geezus H. trim your posts!
Sorry, when were you granted "net nanny" rights?
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Robb
2010-05-23 18:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, when were you granted "net nanny" rights?
It's always granted by a concensus of one.
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
Nobody
2010-05-23 18:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me
re-write that.
Geezus H. trim your posts!
Sorry, when were you granted "net nanny" rights?
You are confusing 'nanny rights' with common sense. Something you
appear to be a bit short of.
Sunny
2010-05-23 23:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me re-write that.
Geezus H. trim your posts!
Sorry, when were you granted "net nanny" rights?
Probably at or about the same time you were "granted: yours?

with statements like your :
(message news:htc3nj$ts0$***@news.eternal-september.org)
"Then please post your personal contact information, and other
identifications, such as registered domain, etc.."
MEB.peoplescounsel
2010-05-23 23:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sunny
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me re-write that.
Geezus H. trim your posts!
Sorry, when were you granted "net nanny" rights?
Probably at or about the same time you were "granted: yours?
"Then please post your personal contact information, and other
identifications, such as registered domain, etc.."
Hey Sunny, you made it here.

So what words of wisdom do you have for the world today?

Can we expect your normal abusive comments, your personal attacks, your
"standard responses?

Or do you have something new to offer?
--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
Sunny
2010-05-24 00:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Sunny
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Post by Robb
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Sorry, that is even difficult for ME to understand.. let me re-write that.
Geezus H. trim your posts!
Sorry, when were you granted "net nanny" rights?
Probably at or about the same time you were "granted: yours?
"Then please post your personal contact information, and other
identifications, such as registered domain, etc.."
Hey Sunny, you made it here.
So what words of wisdom do you have for the world today?
Can we expect your normal abusive comments, your personal attacks, your
"standard responses?
No more than yours.
Post by MEB.peoplescounsel
Or do you have something new to offer?
And you have ?
Julien ÉLIE
2010-05-22 13:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi Pieter,
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
1) The NNTP bridge does not support pipelining.
Unfortunately :-/
It works as a Web Service behind.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this can have some
serious side-effects when the header download is interrupted and continued later
(missing article numbers).
XOVER does not specify it in RFC 2980. OVER specifies the sorting
by article number in RFC 3977.

XHDR and HDR do not have special sorting according to RFC 2980 and 3977...
(Yet, I believe they should!)
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
[tx] LIST OVERVIEW.FMT
[rx] 215 Listing of newsgroups follows.
<all available newsgroups>
That's indeed broken.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
The CAPABILITIES of the NNTP bridge only shows a single LIST entry (among some
others), to me that means that any other LIST command should
give an error instead of some "random" LIST response.
Besides, the whole result of CAPABILITIES is *wrong*:

CAPABILITIES
101 Capability list:
VERSION 2
IMPLEMENTATION Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge 1.1 4-15-2010
XHDR
XOVER
MODE READER
MODE STREAM
POST
NEWGROUPS
LIST
GROUP
IHAVE
LAST
NEXT
HEAD
STAT
ARTICLE
BODY
HELP
QUIT
SLAVE
.


It does not work that way!
For instance, here is a right answer:

CAPABILITIES
101 Capability list:
VERSION 2
IMPLEMENTATION INN 2.6.0 (20100319 prerelease)
AUTHINFO USER SASL
HDR
IHAVE
LIST ACTIVE ACTIVE.TIMES DISTRIB.PATS HEADERS NEWSGROUPS OVERVIEW.FMT
OVER
POST
READER
SASL GSSAPI OTP PLAIN NTLM LOGIN DIGEST-MD5 CRAM-MD5
STARTTLS
.
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Will it be ready one day? :)
--
Julien ÉLIE

« Memoriam quoque ipsam cum uoce perdidissemus,
si tam in nostra potestate esset obliuisci quam tacere. »
(Tacite, _Vie d'Agricola_)
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-22 23:50:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this can have
some serious side-effects when the header download is interrupted and
continued later (missing article numbers).
XOVER does not specify it in RFC 2980. OVER specifies the sorting
by article number in RFC 3977.
Ah, indeed I'm so used to an ordered list when using XOVER that I didn't
realize that it isn't specified in RFC 2980.
Post by Julien ÉLIE
XHDR and HDR do not have special sorting according to RFC 2980 and 3977...
(Yet, I believe they should!)
Never used these.
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
The CAPABILITIES of the NNTP bridge only shows a single LIST entry (among
some others), to me that means that any other LIST command should
give an error instead of some "random" LIST response.
[snipped]
I tried using CAPABILITIES again a couple of months ago, but there are too
many servers that do not support it, only two gave a proper response, both
using INN (2.5.2 and 2.6.0), most other servers (24) I'm connected to,
responded with:
500 Command not recognized (or "What?" :)
... which on itself is OK, but not very motivating to add the
functionality to XN.

Two other servers deserve a special notice:
1) 400 command not recognized
2) which just refused to answer, resulting in a Read-Timeout.

Especially the response of the last two servers would mean that even if I
am going to enable handling of CAPABILITIES, it must be optional (and by
default off).
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
Will it be ready one day? :)
It just needs a little love :)

FMPOV and if they want to keep things simple, all they have to do is to
remove the bogus CAPABILITIES response and give a proper response to the
LIST OVERVIEW.FMT command (just the fixed list should be enough).
--
Pieter

"Some men, in order to prevent the supposed intentions of their
adversaries, have committed the most enormous cruelties."
-- Clearchus, in Xenophon
hsantos
2010-05-23 00:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this can have
some serious side-effects when the header download is interrupted and
continued later (missing article numbers).
XOVER does not specify it in RFC 2980. OVER specifies the sorting
by article number in RFC 3977.
Ah, indeed I'm so used to an ordered list when using XOVER that I didn't
realize that it isn't specified in RFC 2980.
Actually, although not 100% explicit, RFC 2980 section 2.1.7 does
state (2nd sentence)

"When executed, news article header fields are displayed one line at
a time in
the order in which they are stored in the overview database [5]
following the 215
response."

So with the natural assumption that new postings have their OVERVIEW
fields appended to the local overview storage file/database, the
reading and listing would most likely be in order that it was
appended. I personally never seen a server show unordered listing.

--
HLS
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-23 02:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by hsantos
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this
can have some serious side-effects when the header download is
interrupted and continued later (missing article numbers).
XOVER does not specify it in RFC 2980. OVER specifies the sorting
by article number in RFC 3977.
Ah, indeed I'm so used to an ordered list when using XOVER that I
didn't realize that it isn't specified in RFC 2980.
Actually, although not 100% explicit, RFC 2980 section 2.1.7 does
state (2nd sentence)
"When executed, news article header fields are displayed one line at
a time in
the order in which they are stored in the overview database [5]
following the 215
response."
But the natural order of how they are stored in the database doesn't
have to be based on article numbers, but ...
Post by hsantos
So with the natural assumption that new postings have their OVERVIEW
fields appended to the local overview storage file/database, the
reading and listing would most likely be in order that it was
appended. I personally never seen a server show unordered listing.
... I do agree, any other order is very unlikely and I haven't seen an
unordered list before (temporary hiccups, bugs, etc excluded).
--
Pieter

Woodward's Law: A theory is better than its explanation.
hsantos
2010-05-23 03:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Its hard to imagine how this unordered listing occurs with this MS
NNTP bridge. The backend interface is web service API and at the
moment it is unpublished information (AFAIK, inquires are going
unanswered), so when the client does a XOVER, XHDR based on a low-high
article numbers, who knows how the bridge is transforming the query
into a web service API call. So we don't know its functional
limitation of the backend API but if so, the bridge author clearly did
not have the experience to maybe sorit it itself before presentation
to maximize client expectations.

There are our issues with this server, and the #1 is that it doesn't
provide a domain (right hand side) for the message-id and there is no
space separation for XHDR listings between the article number and
header value.

S: 200 Server is ready and posting is allowed.
C: GROUP msdn.en-us.vcmfcatl
S: 211 1749 1 1749 msdn.en-us.vcmfcatl
C: XHDR subject 1739-1749
S: 221 Header follows
S: 1746Re: How to write data in different language into a file
S: 1747Re: How to write data in different language into a file
S: 1748Re: How to write data in different language into a file
S: 1742Re: MDI - CMDITabInfo, CMDIFrameWndEx - drag and ......
S: 1749Re: what?s is the diffrence in CHtmlEditCtrl,..........
S: 1739Re: Link error happening while compiling ..............
S: 1740Re: Is CCriticalSection broken in VS2005?
S: 1743Re: Is CCriticalSection broken in VS2005?
S: 1745Re: Is CCriticalSection broken in VS2005?
S: 1741custom checkboxes in CListCtrl
S: 1744Re: custom checkboxes in CListCtrl
S: .

All these bugs were recorded in thier bugs database so one can only
hope they are addressed by the time they begin turning off groups and
eventually their NNTP sservers and the massive migration begins. I
don't think they realize (maybe they do), its going to be a thorn on
the side for them if they don't at the very least address the
fundamental NNTP protocol compliance requirements.

Or release the documentation on the backend MS FORUMS API so that
better NNTP proxy alternatives can be written. I know I am very eager
to do this.

Of course, as others has suggested, they could keep their own NNTP
servers running to act as MS Forums backend proxy thus avoiding users
needed to install a local proxy.

Right now, what I did was setup a pull of the mail into our backend
server and use our own NNTP Server interface that doesn't have these
NNTP issues. However, its only for single users as all responses and
postings are eventually posted by the bridge which will force the
FROM: to be the authenticated user of the bridge.

That might be problem for web sites that offer Microsoft News Support
servies and would want to interface into the MS FORUMS backend using
the proxy. In other words, a Multi-User Live ID version of the Bridge/
Proxy would be necessary.

--
Hector Santos, CTO
http://www.santronics.com
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by hsantos
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
3) (X)OVER: the resulting list is not ordered by article number.
The order of article numbers seems to be thread related, this
can have some serious side-effects when the header download is
interrupted and continued later (missing article numbers).
XOVER does not specify it in RFC 2980. OVER specifies the sorting
by article number in RFC 3977.
Ah, indeed I'm so used to an ordered list when using XOVER that I
didn't realize that it isn't specified in RFC 2980.
Actually, although not 100% explicit, RFC 2980 section 2.1.7 does
state (2nd sentence)
"When executed, news article header fields are displayed one line at
a time in
the order in which they are stored in the overview database [5]
following the 215
response."
But the natural order of how they are stored in the database doesn't
have to be based on article numbers, but ...
Post by hsantos
So with the natural assumption that new postings have their OVERVIEW
fields appended to the local overview storage file/database, the
reading and listing would most likely be in order that it was
appended. I personally never seen a server show unordered listing.
... I do agree, any other order is very unlikely and I haven't seen an
unordered list before (temporary hiccups, bugs, etc excluded).
--
Pieter
Woodward's Law: A theory is better than its explanation.
Robb
2010-05-22 18:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
*Speed*
=====
Downloading 72K headers from a NNTP-bridged-group took about 1 hour,
compare this to downloading 100K headers from the newsserver of my ISP
which only takes 45 seconds.
*NNTP*
====
1) The NNTP bridge does not support pipelining.
I wonder what gave them the idea they can control post's to the forums once
they're inside a news reader? Agent won't perform 'commands', if I click
the lock icon they're archived until I delete them. Everything in a group, or
several, can be saved to an archive file with a few keystrokes. I suppose they
expect most users will use the current Outlook Express.

The NNTP bridge service went away last night now the grouplist has been
restructured/renamed and shortened, I only got 1735 "new" groups.

This one 'Technet.en_US.w7proinstall' reads like the win 7 install issues group,
it's showing 48881 "headers" (NNTP bridge set to get bodies at the same time).

Connect time was 19 minutes to process the whole group, and received 45648
articles. I posted a screenshot of the choppy (roughly 1mbit) bandwidth here:
Loading Image...

The disclaimer from the login dialog on the NNTP bridge app says "not from
Microsoft", so this is someone else's middleware, the RAM usage climbed over
200MB as it processed the stuff.

According to: https://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums
"It is not to be treated as a fully functional NNTP server."
"It's our team's pleasure to be able to empower you to participate in
Microsoft's forum communities! Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge Team"

The old > quote indicators are gone, and the reply-posts I read look like
discrete articles. Like you said, NNTP bridge is not quite there.

Two headers from that update,
cutline
--
Oldest header:

From: Nico Sienaert
Newsgroups: Technet.en-US.w7itproinstall
Subject: Refresh scenario - redirect User profiles to another partition
Message-ID: <6809a882-07c8-4d76-9b72-4c8c7ad627e7>
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:50:30 +0000
Expires: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 11:50:30 +0000
Date-Received: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:50:30 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Newest:

From: newitadmin
Newsgroups: Technet.en-US.w7itproinstall
Subject: Re: "New RAID-5 Volume..." greyed out in Disk Management
Message-ID: <ac21a697-fe67-4456-939e-dad073cb71f5>
Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 16:04:09 +0000
References: <92e8da18-1722-4edd-bc75-d20ab14702bd>
Expires: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:04:09 +0000
Date-Received: Sat, 22 May 2010 16:04:09 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
Julien ÉLIE
2010-05-22 18:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi Robb,
Post by Robb
The NNTP bridge service went away last night now the grouplist has been
restructured/renamed and shortened, I only got 1735 "new" groups.
It is Microsoft's "Great Renaming"!
Post by Robb
This one 'Technet.en_US.w7proinstall' reads like the win 7 install issues group,
it's showing 48881 "headers" (NNTP bridge set to get bodies at the same time).
Connect time was 19 minutes to process the whole group, and received 45648
articles.
Too bad they do not host a news server which would only be interfaced
with their web forum. Authentication would be with the same login as
their web forums.
It would be faster than their bridge with Web Services...
--
Julien ÉLIE

« Boire du café empêche de dormir. Par contre, dormir empêche
de boire du café. » (Philippe Geluck)
Robb
2010-05-22 20:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Hi Robb,
Post by Robb
The NNTP bridge service went away last night now the grouplist has been
restructured/renamed and shortened, I only got 1735 "new" groups.
It is Microsoft's "Great Renaming"!
I guess, but it begs the question..
Post by Julien ÉLIE
Post by Robb
This one 'Technet.en_US.w7proinstall' reads like the win 7 install issues group,
it's showing 48881 "headers" (NNTP bridge set to get bodies at the same time).
Connect time was 19 minutes to process the whole group, and received 45648
articles.
Too bad they do not host a news server which would only be interfaced
with their web forum. Authentication would be with the same login as
their web forums.
It would be faster than their bridge with Web Services...
..why didn't they write a converter for webposts > usenet articles and keep
the newsserver running?
--
Robb | Shared Secrets Usenet
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-05-22 23:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robb
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
*Speed*
=====
Downloading 72K headers from a NNTP-bridged-group took about 1 hour,
compare this to downloading 100K headers from the newsserver of my ISP
which only takes 45 seconds.
*NNTP*
====
1) The NNTP bridge does not support pipelining.
I wonder what gave them the idea they can control post's to the forums once
they're inside a news reader? Agent won't perform 'commands', if I click
the lock icon they're archived until I delete them. Everything in a group, or
several, can be saved to an archive file with a few keystrokes. I suppose they
expect most users will use the current Outlook Express.
Actually they recommend saving a local copy:
<quote>
Secondarily, we realize that users may wish to download and locally store
past forum contents. With the V1.1 release of the Bridge, we highly
recommend the user to download both headers and bodies at the same time,
rather than headers only. There are two reasons why we recommend so.
First, the NNTP Bridge has built-in features to speed up downloading post
bodies when they are fetched immediately after the headers. Secondly,
localy caching only the headers may result in missing or mismatched data
at a future point in time when you decide to download the bodies. This may
be caused by moving posts as the Microsoft Forums are governed by diligent
moderators.
</quote>
Post by Robb
The NNTP bridge service went away last night now the grouplist has been
restructured/renamed and shortened, I only got 1735 "new" groups.
Did you not receive the email from MS? "Answers.*" is moved to a
different server, but to be able to connect to that you'll need another
NNTP bridge :(
Post by Robb
This one 'Technet.en_US.w7proinstall' reads like the win 7 install issues group,
it's showing 48881 "headers" (NNTP bridge set to get bodies at the same time).
Connect time was 19 minutes to process the whole group, and received 45648
http://www.shared-secrets.com/images/bwmon.jpeg
I have an 1 up / 8 down mbit connection, but that's not helping. What I
see here is that I receive a couple of XOVER lines in a burst, then for a
couple seconds nothing and then the next batch is received, etc.
The graph is similar to yours though.

What's probably also not helping here is that I'm (we are?) on the other
side of the big pond.
Post by Robb
The disclaimer from the login dialog on the NNTP bridge app says "not from
Microsoft", so this is someone else's middleware, the RAM usage climbed over
200MB as it processed the stuff.
Yes, noticed the RAM usage too, I assume that's caused by prefetching the
bodies (?).
--
Pieter

"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way
is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies.
And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no
obvious deficiencies." -- C.A.R. Hoare
Pieter Zijlstra
2010-06-02 00:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter Zijlstra
IMO, the MS NNTP bridge is far from ready.
There is an alternative http://communitybridge.codeplex.com/ that works
better than the official MS NNTP brige.
--
Pieter

The Law Of The Perversity Of Nature: You cannot determine
beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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